[choppa] SYG

[Mergrim]

35%-50% crit dmg tactic not fix problem on choppa.
We need:Lotsa choppin fix dmg(slayer deal 11-13% more dmg on flurry)
Replace GTDC with ID mirror(10sec cd due chop fasta)
And fix for Spine crusher and Go to da soft spot for both class to be viable skill, make it same as mara Impale. Not need positioning but ignore armor if hit side or back. Both class don't have any good spammable ST ability that scale with path you use.

Currently full rage choppa deal 17-19% less single target dmg on full rotation and bis gear than 1button spam rend mara, still having half armor and resist in this time.

And:p shatter limbs reduce cd max by 3sec now so it's not chop fasta=shatter. Chop fast>shatter:P

[knick]

Spoiler:

Because its not needed to be explained why slayers are stronger... At this point its well known and only reason why slayers arent getting nerfed because order doesnt stack them like Destro does for choppas but I waste my time and explain it again. Rampage ability where you surpass any parry/block where SnB tanks who hold the door will literally be melted in a single push (which is most of the time...). Imagine you being a tank and putting your Renowns points on block/parry to hold the door. Thinking you will be steel wall... Then angry naked baby man comes and says "lol nice try scrub" and starts hitting you like no other meanwhile you trying to hold it as much as possible. You might say, GTDC... It is literally worst ability, a meme ability that randomly pulls single person when it damages... Gives free immunities to people. Maybe you can say choppas has Chop fasta... Yeah order has it too on SM. Wayback BO's had it but order cried a lot and it got taken away. Which is how nerf/buffs happen in this server. People who cry loud gets the **** they want.

The fact that for a very long time IC gets daily farmed by order. Is it because order is good? No because they got more players playing that side which is another indication that order is stronger side. I heard some laughable arguements where people saying people might play order because it looks good not because they arent strong. Well my friend compared to destro, order looks like ****. Not to mention in any mmorpg people always play on stronger side. There will be some underdog players but you cant show a single mmorpg with factions where underdog faction is the most populated one.

Spoiler:

u cant add core 50% crit damage if rest clases need spend points there. and make sacrefices.
if there will be miracle and its become core with +50%crit than black orc will deal even more damage than any ather tanks.

WL has a 50% crit dmg+ as core but its requirement is pet must be alive.
But to topic. Call a 25%+ dmg on crit not "dramatic" is a bit of a understatement. i couldn't argue it's going bad for Chopper / slayer. To discredit this discussion from the begin on with a statement like

If anyone comes along (and knowing the crying children of order I'm sure they will) who says this change is too strong then I say no problem.
Rampage + ID + Push for more goes to choppas and GTDC + Keep on Choppin' + SYG goes to slayers .

does not help either.
A class based on more than 2 or 3 abilitys and tactics. Its a total package and just cherry picking here 1 or 2 of them does not help any discussion.
Maybe the Ideas to improve choppa abilities have not been considered because its not needed?
I cant see a real argument to do so? Maybe you should explain a bit more why you think slayer is better or stronger than chopper. But as said comparing 2 abilitys is not a argument in my eyes

Do I really need to explain this? Really?
I'll start at the end:
1. effect - slayer kills tanks together with guarded target. It also kills anyone in range.
2) Cause - rampage>ID>retributtion>others aoe and ST skills.

What do you not understand here?

Now the details of two classes.
A. choppa: GTDC - free immun giver. No burst. Channel (cant use together with other skills to increase burst). Only suitable for use in mindless aoe zerg.
A. slayer: ID - perfect aoe dot. Excellent in aoe and ST. Large slayer burst boost.
B. choppa: Keep On Choppin' - I don't think I need to explain why not even one choppa uses this.
B. slayer: Rampage - best skill in the game. Opponents can't block his attacks in any way. Even morale doesn't work for this. Tank dies together or even faster than guarded target because he gets dmg from guard + direct slayer dmg.

Additionally Push for More is a much better tactic than SYG.
Chop fasta - slayer shatter

All this makes slayer double or triple choppas dmg in every ranked sc.

see in the end this post leads where all the other posts went to. You bring your personal opinion other bring their. Some quotes here some there. But in the end its nothing more than your personal opinion with the main statement "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence". I mean for the WE/WH post we had at least some videos and can do calculations. But here is nothing else than a personal opinion clashing into other personal opinions. Every class has a nemesis so maybe for destro tanks its the slayer?
Only argument i can understand and go conform is that rampage should not go trough parry M1. But as far as i know does ever undefendable attack ignore parry M1 so its a overarching problem.

[Orgruk]

Crit builds are nowaday really underperforming compared to armor pen ones. I think it would be better to look for something adding more armor pen than crits to Choppas, maybe by adding this to Go for Da Soft Spot ?

[Helwer]

see in the end this post leads where all the other posts went to. You bring your personal opinion other bring their. Some quotes here some there. But in the end its nothing more than your personal opinion with the main statement "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence". I mean for the WE/WH post we had at least some videos and can do calculations. But here is nothing else than a personal opinion clashing into other personal opinions. Every class has a nemesis so maybe for destro tanks its the slayer?
Only argument i can understand and go conform is that rampage should not go trough parry M1. But as far as i know does ever undefendable attack ignore parry M1 so its a overarching problem.
[/quote]

well i can imagine how you get to lower dmg - by reading tool tips where slayers Flurry does smth from 103-153 dmg to 3 enemies in 25 ft while Lotsa Choppin does 93-133 with the same conditions. For the reason that Choppa has no Rampage or ID or SL which all do lots of aoe dmg? it is not really reproducible for me who is not playing choppa. and gtdc is ok but when i read tool tip with channel and only every 2 sec plus radom pull it is meh ok but not even close compareable.

Maybe it's only me who understand choppas?

[Parallell86]

Crit damage? Wut?! Im pure armor pen with 2% crit chance. I dont use SYG tactic for obvious reasons. Wouldnt make any difference to choppas who think outside the crit stacking meta box.

[Dan666]

i play choppa from day one live
,i have a good change with minimal change to the game and minimal coding

simple fix that will only effect choppa and have very little change and coding for the dev
put slasha in the Path of Da' Savage tree this will synergize with (yer getting soft) choppa tactic , this is the best change with minimal change ,also most build are Path of Da' Savage tree because is got no weapon restriction and healing with furious chopping , with Path of Da' Hitta 2 hand or Da' Wrecka dual wield

also right now slasha(main spam attack) is so underpower because amost anyone play 2 hand so too put this skill in the Path of Da' Savage tree slasha will also benefits to be scale up in dps because most choppa put point in the skill tree to get furious chopping


sadly all ignore this is my 2 cent thank you

[Dan666]

Crit builds are nowaday really underperforming compared to armor pen ones. I think it would be better to look for something adding more armor pen than crits to Choppas, maybe by adding this to Go for Da Soft Spot ?

110% agree

Crit build are only good vs beginner

vs veteran Crit build lost a lot of shine because all def again Crit ,

armor pen is more a sure value

[Alubert]

35%-50% crit dmg tactic not fix problem on choppa.
We need:Lotsa choppin fix dmg(slayer deal 11-13% more dmg on flurry)
Replace GTDC with ID mirror(10sec cd due chop fasta)
And fix for Spine crusher and Go to da soft spot for both class to be viable skill, make it same as mara Impale. Not need positioning but ignore armor if hit side or back. Both class don't have any good spammable ST ability that scale with path you use.

Currently full rage choppa deal 17-19% less single target dmg on full rotation and bis gear than 1button spam rend mara, still having half armor and resist in this time.

And:p shatter limbs reduce cd max by 3sec now so it's not chop fasta=shatter. Chop fast>shatter:P

I agree with everything.

I equated CHop Fast with Shatter limbs due to the fact that CF in many cases is ignored by players in the party as if you don't have it at all (tanks dont use sever bless/shatter encha every GCD, healers dont clease every GDC) ect. Slayer Shatter Limbs affects every character hit without exception.
Although I don't like the exact mapping of abilities to two sides of a conflict, having ID on choppas would be a dream come true. Which I doubt will ever happen. That's why I would start the balancing act between op SL and poor choppa by making changes in small steps. Hence the idea of reinforcing SYG.

Spine crasher and GFDSS was virtually destroyed by blocking NB. If you have to risk losing a GCD to increase dmg a bit then you usually choose to use Slash.
So your idea is very cool with one exception. The change should not apply to the most overrated class in the game (SL) but only to the choppas

Additionally, I hope that the advent of LOD will bring far more opportunities to build crit-based choppas like it did on the live server.