Increase Fortress loss Invaders from 1 --> 2

[Rubius]

I would highly disagree with “improving” rewards for losing anything. History in RoR has shown countless times as rewards go up for losing, actually “trying” decreases. Many examples are old fort rules , Bo “afk” ticks, city afk for bags so on and so on. Imo if you want to win bags and better “loot” win, period.

I see this motivating people differently, but to your point, let me explain why I feel that people swapping to the zerg side is less "trying".

Say the attacking side has ~140 people and the defenders have ~60.

Imagine you're a defending warband leader and you get your warband to push with you to take a flag. You get it, and after get quickly blobbed and wiped, but you can at least capture flags each time this way to extend Stage 2. You do your best to keep your people motivated and pushing.

Now imagine you get all 60 people to go for a Lord Room defense, or you try a special maneuver of some sort to try and surprise your enemies. Despite good efforts, due to the numbers, your group is eventually wiped, and you go to jail.

To me, that group who fought hard against the numbers - and I've literally led some of these groups over the last year - worked far, far harder than the attacking group who had 2-3x their numbers and coasted in to free invaders. The defenders did everything in their power to win despite an almost certain loss. Compared to that, do you truly feel that someone who decides to hop onto the side with the blob for easy 400%+ rewards is trying harder than the defenders in the above case?

(This is a real question btw, not trying to be rude and I agree with you that people who put in no effort or afk don't deserve free bags - I'm just seeing things from a very different perspective here.)

[Toshutkidup]

I would highly disagree with “improving” rewards for losing anything. History in RoR has shown countless times as rewards go up for losing, actually “trying” decreases. Many examples are old fort rules , Bo “afk” ticks, city afk for bags so on and so on. Imo if you want to win bags and better “loot” win, period.

I see this motivating people differently, but to your point, let me explain why I feel that people swapping to the zerg side is less "trying".

Say the attacking side has ~140 people and the defenders have ~60.

Imagine you're a defending warband leader and you get your warband to push with you to take a flag. You get it, and after get quickly blobbed and wiped, but you can at least capture flags each time this way to extend Stage 2. You do your best to keep your people motivated and pushing.

Now imagine you get all 60 people to go for a Lord Room defense, or you try a special maneuver of some sort to try and surprise your enemies. Despite good efforts, due to the numbers, your group is eventually wiped, and you go to jail.

To me, that group who fought hard against the numbers - and I've literally led some of these groups over the last year - worked far, far harder than the attacking group who had 2-3x their numbers and coasted in to free invaders. The defenders did everything in their power to win despite an almost certain loss. Compared to that, do you truly feel that someone who decides to hop onto the side with the blob for easy 400%+ rewards is trying harder than the defenders in the above case?

(This is a real question btw, not trying to be rude and I agree with you that people who put in no effort or afk don't deserve free bags - I'm just seeing things from a very different perspective here.)

The issue is and Im no "coder" is to tell who is "trying" and who just stands around and does nothing. Yes I agree in a perfect world people that try to win but just cant because of pure #'s deserve something. But figuring out who those people are and giving them "more" vs the people who just dont care and want free **** is prolly beyond the Devs ability, time or effort and has been issues for most MMO style games that Ive played.

And Im not tryin to be an ass, and a honest discussion about these such topics are needed, just that usually 6 replies in, it goes toxic.

[Battlefield]

Agree or make exchange 1 royal to 2 invader, even in bags invader medallions go x2 than royal.

[btbw2009]

lol ppl dont understand what is destro farm math and why it never changes
destro attack - order defend = destro win
all destro got reward, some of order got something lesser then small grp rvr at same time
ordr attack - destr defend = destro win
all destro got reward, no order got something
conclusion - more order reroll to destro, more destro, more destro win
why it need to be changed? all destro developers is fine and enjoy game

[anarchypark]

same anticipation reward 1.
winner get 1 more and gold/purple bags.
so winner 2, loser 1.

4 is carrot to win but it add more weights to winner.
cuz defenders already lost in previous zone.

reduce farm/reward part from fort and let them play game itself.

[TreefAM]

actually organize your fort push instead of going unga bunga random warband **** and expect to win

[Rubius]

The issue is and Im no "coder" is to tell who is "trying" and who just stands around and does nothing. Yes I agree in a perfect world people that try to win but just cant because of pure #'s deserve something. But figuring out who those people are and giving them "more" vs the people who just dont care and want free **** is prolly beyond the Devs ability, time or effort and has been issues for most MMO style games that Ive played.

And Im not tryin to be an ass, and a honest discussion about these such topics are needed, just that usually 6 replies in, it goes toxic.

Yes, no worries and I agree as things can get heated on any RvR discussion! I do appreciate the response and it sounds like we pretty much share the same opinion on rewarding those trying, if there's a way to do this.

why it need to be changed? all destro developers is fine and enjoy game

I see you and your sarcasm there. (Each side blames the other for dev bias, btw.) This suggestion is meant to be faction-agnostic, so whether it's Destro zerging 50 order or Order zerging 50 destro, the goal is to help motivate the smaller side to show up instead of logging to the other realm or swapping accounts.

actually organize your fort push instead of going unga bunga random warband **** and expect to win

Always in support of organized / discord warbands. To note, this suggestion is less about attackers losing, and more about motivating defenders in fights that are 150 v 50, etc. (Gave some examples earlier in the thread.)

[shoelessHN]

actually organize your fort push instead of going unga bunga random warband **** and expect to win

It's not just random warbands it's the amount of solo/duos in forts. Only way to get anything worth the time is to solo. Except healers -- they of course cant get any renown for soloing. Only dps players get rewarded for soloing.

So if you want renown, solo.

If you want medals group up and pray enough other people want medals that day as well.

[Tillirage]

I see you arguement about increasing the losing reward because it usually a Zerg fest but as other people already said. People will throw forts more because they now can more by doing it. Xrealming is minor problem because most of the time people just straight leave and move empty zones for contribution. Not even changing realms. At the end orvr games always will be a zerg fest. You either accept this or move on to ranked. Maybe other games where you can have arena/bg pvp.