Feedback on the GCD & AP changes

[Secrets]

For those interested in the changes and the impact, I did a bigger write-up here: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=48309&p=511560#p511549 (buried at the end of the patch notes).

One bit of Secret's post that jumped out though:

On top of this issue, an AP regeneration change on top of the patch further added complexity to an already lower GCD.

https://github.com/cooler-SAI/ProjectWA ... r.cs#L4561

Under the old code, you could potentially get a 'free' AP tick at 1.5ms, if your client was outside of the 400ms batch window and sent the response too late, or the server was delayed processing the next frame.

At some high stress situations, the server can be overloaded and those AP batch windows can be delayed by anywhere from 50 to 100 ms. This means that you would potentially have a server frame that updates on the same time as the AP tick, but the AP tick is processed before the abilities fire. That means that you would sometimes get a free tick of AP that was inconsistent due to GCD usage.

I'm not sure you've got this bit right. I could be wrong as you know the code better than I do, but going by what Dalen said and from what I can see in the Apoc code:

Spoiler:

1) "UpdateActionPoints" calls "AbtInterface.IsOnGlobalCooldown" to see if we're in a GCD.
2) "AbtInterface.IsOnGlobalCooldown" makes a call to "IsOnGlobalCooldown()".
3) "IsOnGlobalCooldown()" is just a wrapper for "!CanCastCooldown(0)", with 0 seemingly being the ID for the GCD.

Anyway, eventually you end up at "CanCastCooldown": https://github.com/cooler-SAI/ProjectWA ... ce.cs#L597. In there, it's factoring in the 400ms grace period into the GCD calculation as well.

It seems the extra AP ticks weren't due to packets arriving after 1.5s or due to server spikes, but due to 1.1s being used as the GCD in the AP calculations as well, and abilities typically activating at some point between 1.1s and 1.5s depending on when the server received the packet from the client. That gap between the 1.1s GCD ending and the next ability actually triggering was adding to the AP timer.

I think...

Yeah that's basically it, combined with server loops which may advance time. Our loops are changed since apoc stole our code and we have anywhere from 5ms to 100ms per region update generally. It will also skip updates that trigger lower than the minimum and throttle them so they match a consistent frame time.

It's less of an issue now with decent optimization. You may see a bunch of get timestamp calls in apoc. Grabbing that data over and over again instead of caching it per loop was why we had performance issues during the lazy peon surge. I implemented a timestamp per region, per loop that is cached so we don't needlessly retrieve the time every frame.

With the new GCD changes, AP is now consistently drained if you use actions too quickly. That is why I proposed a consistent tick on a specific window of the GCD. It emulates the prior bug.

You are otherwise spot on with the issue. Great stuff

Secrets is too sensitive to ****-chat for that. Gamesbond is the only one that can act a befitting way no matter the tone

I actually grew a thicker skin over the years. What you perceive as 'whining' can also be described as me taking off the gloves with a situation that was detrimental to the health of the server.

So if you see me complaining like the last thread that was deleted, know that I am not affected like I used to be with previous cases like when I had spats with Azarael, Natherul, Grimnir, and such over the years. I am 30. I grew wiser with every encounter.

While everyone thought I was having a mental breakdown this time (there were many who asked who I assured I was fine), I was at the pool swimming and touching grass while not in a dress attending some much needed water therapy at my familys' pool. Meanwhile people were freaking out about what I posted. I live rent free in some peoples' heads because I say what they may not want to hear. Can't really apologize for things I am not sorry about.

[havartii]

Invaluable insight, the team needs you Secrets

[Foxplay]

A simple revert would do just fine

[Elemint]

I didn't say you whine mate, i said anyone - even a complete pepe chatting **** to you puts you off balance

[norealein]

+1 great post

great insights into how this could be tackled i hope it finds open ears!

[Undeadfiend]

I play Black Orc, first time back after a week break. My punt cant down enemies in pve anymore, my punt would perform punt without any target before. My punt in pvp sometimes work only right on top of target. Most times in pvp it plays the half animation, and i dont perform punt. For me punt is now useless for black orc, its broken. Please this needs to adressed. Thank you

[Secrets]

A simple revert would do just fine

While I agree normally - the proposal in my post functionally reverts the change.

MaxHayman informed me that the team now has a way of making ability changes much quicker with the new system. It needed much more time in the incubator, which is why I proposed #4. From what I understand, the way the new system is architecturally implemented, it reduces the time and effort needed to make abilities and changes by about 95%.

It will be amazing in the long run, as dalen could in practice add conditional skips for grayed out abilities to Sequencer without having to set exceptions for each ability type.

I didn't say you whine mate, i said anyone - even a complete pepe chatting **** to you puts you off balance

Two things:

1) How many software engineers do you know that are social, outgoing and well adjusted? My answer is maybe 2. Three at best.

2) Innovators are normally blessed and cursed with high intelligence, as it allows them to see the world at a glance and also see its flaws. A feeling of being able to benefit the world is an unstoppable force, and you meet immovable objects your whole career.

Emotions or not, I want to push a project forward that I have hopes for. There are people who don't care if it does progress - those that complain for the sake of complaining, while offering no valuable input.

It is a hypocrisy in itself to be emotionally charged about someone who is passionate emotionally about something they want to see succeed as you are no better than the person you are complaining about. Want to do better? Apply to work as a source developer on RoR. Show through your actions that you can do better.

[jshort]

First of all thank you for the more detailed insight on the situation. If the new changes will save development time in the long run, which could have also been communicated earlier .... i think a simple revert of the patch is not a good idea. But slow fights with no ap dont feel right either. It just killed the fun for me atleast. So any solution to bring back the "old fighting system" would be great.

Communication is the key right now. An official announcement like "hey we got that the last patch was very suprising for most of you, that many players dont feel happy with it. We are aware that it caused a lot of frustration and bugs. We cant just revert it because future develpment benefits etc. BUT we hear you and we are still working on it"

Not responding to the concerns of the community at all gives the impression of "Here it is. Deal with it." and will only cause more frustration among the players.

[Kenshiken]

A simple revert would do just fine

While I agree normally - the proposal in my post functionally reverts the change.

MaxHayman informed me that the team now has a way of making ability changes much quicker with the new system. It needed much more time in the incubator, which is why I proposed #4. From what I understand, the way the new system is architecturally implemented, it reduces the time and effort needed to make abilities and changes by about 95%.

It will be amazing in the long run, as dalen could in practice add conditional skips for grayed out abilities to Sequencer without having to set exceptions for each ability type.

I didn't say you whine mate, i said anyone - even a complete pepe chatting **** to you puts you off balance

Two things:

1) How many software engineers do you know that are social, outgoing and well adjusted? My answer is maybe 2. Three at best.

2) Innovators are normally blessed and cursed with high intelligence, as it allows them to see the world at a glance and also see its flaws. A feeling of being able to benefit the world is an unstoppable force, and you meet immovable objects your whole career.

Emotions or not, I want to push a project forward that I have hopes for. There are people who don't care if it does progress - those that complain for the sake of complaining, while offering no valuable input.

It is a hypocrisy in itself to be emotionally charged about someone who is passionate emotionally about something they want to see succeed as you are no better than the person you are complaining about. Want to do better? Apply to work as a source developer on RoR. Show through your actions that you can do better.

You can't step up and try to negate effects of this patch somehow with fixes?
Community need you right now as ever, I think.

[Fenris78]

Concerns are already answered by dev team, for those who didnt read already :

- they are aware of the AP issue and are working to fix it,

- they are not going to return to the old GCD system, because the new one is meant to solve numerous development issues, and provide more easy changes in the future over abilities and most of their behavior (including patching and restoring NPC/Bosses mechanics that was broken etc.),

- It's not exluded the GCD will be slightly tweaked again to give a bit more "flow" over ability sequences, but the resulting and final GCD will always be 1.5s.