New Player 16-39 Experience is Atrocious

[Sulorie]

Its 2022 wake the **** up nobody got time for that

Try to make an argument once in a while why it is so bad, considering you just pvp like anywhere else.

[WargasmicWayne]

Honestly, the experience since hasn't been as bad as my first night hitting 16 was.

I think it was just a mixed bag of it getting later into the night so queues stopped popping coupled with hitting the same megasweat premade (probably the only ones queueing up on order) over and over while not being able to fill up a scenario on our own side. My impression was this was the effect of changing brackets, but I think it was actually a mixture of things.

I'm not gonna say the game is extremely accessible to new players, and I do think it wouldn't be a bad move to give new players some kind of boost-- or at least have frequent +RR/exp events or something (and maybe a free welfare set at rr40 to cut down on some of the endgame grind), but my first impression of the 16-39 bracket was kind of a 'worst case scenario', if you'll excuse the pun.

The game does take a hard turn at a certain point of night when the Europeans are sleeping. It's not really playable after that point unfortunately, but at least it's not a dead bracket like I thought.

Hitting a premade as a pug is also a death sentence... But I can deal with that as long as it's not repeatedly, and after waiting long queues.

[Secrets]

There will be a rumored patch coming that the team is working on to address this very issue by giving you your full ability kit earlier.

I'd hold judgement on the current pre-rank 40 experience until then.

the 5 new people with have a great experiance!

I think there's more people coming in and out of the game than you realize.

The moment a lot of players hit T2, there's a massive falloff of retention. It's pretty apparent if you look at the dead hours of the game and see T1's population remaining relatively healthy. Unfortunately, those players hit t2, there's a lot of unexplained mechanics, and the team's bright idea the last 2 years of development was to tell them "just read the wiki, the info you need is there", which is not an acceptable medium of informing players.

I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say that the community remaining here is generally unwelcoming, the 'decent' players are isolationists outside of their organized groups and are often laden with sarcastic remarks to new players, and the only options players have for finding out crucial information is the forums (outdated medium, and outdated information, given how frequently the game changes), the wiki (a majority of people these days do not want to read, but may have been happy to in 2008 when Warhammer Online first came out - now a days, even those who would once have read up on that style of thing are unwilling), and other players. (see previous remark)

There needs to be an improved onboarding process for players, and veterans need to stop being shafted by the development team with unneeded changes that remove the fun or enjoyment of the game for players, and the players need not be blocked by an administrative vision that is causing the game's decline.
Solve those three issues, and I guarantee those population numbers will go up again.

I can't even touch the game now without getting absolutely emotional over the sad state it's in. I tried playing an old lowbie character yesterday, and immediately was disappointed that the best way to gear my 16 Witch Elf efficiently was to do PVE content. That's freakin' unacceptable. Paul Barnett would be extremely disappointed that you have to grind bears to max level before you could participate in the WAAAGH!

I know there's stuff being worked on, too. I know it's shallow to ask for that stuff to hurry up, but with no additional developer talent being onboarded and players who would potentially be interested, it's hard to get excited for any minor changes, even to these very issues, knowing they may be a year or more out. Please recruit additional developer talent - or consider removing the barrier of entry by open sourcing the code, database, and client tools so people can do your job alongside the core development team, without the added pressure of being part of the development team which has burned out countless individuals and caused endless infighting between team members over the years.

[mekal]

this game has and for the forseeable future will be an ultra casual "pvp" game where people just want to press 1-3 buttons make rvr at least semi entertaining where BO actually matter and give people the satisfaction of a kill stop focusing on small scale stop changing classes cos every single time its **** and drives people away

[Whyumadbro]

There will be a rumored patch coming that the team is working on to address this very issue by giving you your full ability kit earlier.

I'd hold judgement on the current pre-rank 40 experience until then.

the 5 new people with have a great experiance!

I think there's more people coming in and out of the game than you realize.

The moment a lot of players hit T2, there's a massive falloff of retention. It's pretty apparent if you look at the dead hours of the game and see T1's population remaining relatively healthy. Unfortunately, those players hit t2, there's a lot of unexplained mechanics, and the team's bright idea the last 2 years of development was to tell them "just read the wiki, the info you need is there", which is not an acceptable medium of informing players.

I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say that the community remaining here is generally unwelcoming, the 'decent' players are isolationists outside of their organized groups and are often laden with sarcastic remarks to new players, and the only options players have for finding out crucial information is the forums (outdated medium, and outdated information, given how frequently the game changes), the wiki (a majority of people these days do not want to read, but may have been happy to in 2008 when Warhammer Online first came out - now a days, even those who would once have read up on that style of thing are unwilling), and other players. (see previous remark)

There needs to be an improved onboarding process for players, and veterans need to stop being shafted by the development team with unneeded changes that remove the fun or enjoyment of the game for players, and the players need not be blocked by an administrative vision that is causing the game's decline.
Solve those three issues, and I guarantee those population numbers will go up again.

I can't even touch the game now without getting absolutely emotional over the sad state it's in. I tried playing an old lowbie character yesterday, and immediately was disappointed that the best way to gear my 16 Witch Elf efficiently was to do PVE content. That's freakin' unacceptable. Paul Barnett would be extremely disappointed that you have to grind bears to max level before you could participate in the WAAAGH!

I know there's stuff being worked on, too. I know it's shallow to ask for that stuff to hurry up, but with no additional developer talent being onboarded and players who would potentially be interested, it's hard to get excited for any minor changes, even to these very issues, knowing they may be a year or more out. Please recruit additional developer talent - or consider removing the barrier of entry by open sourcing the code, database, and client tools so people can do your job alongside the core development team, without the added pressure of being part of the development team which has burned out countless individuals and caused endless infighting between team members over the years.

Yes you are ofc right ( or at least i hope so). Honestly i dont think there is a solution to this problem with this kind of limited rescources and the current player numbers. I appreciate the work that flows into the community and the game.

[Emissary]

There will be a rumored patch coming that the team is working on to address this very issue by giving you your full ability kit earlier.

I'd hold judgement on the current pre-rank 40 experience until then.

the 5 new people with have a great experiance!

I think there's more people coming in and out of the game than you realize.

The moment a lot of players hit T2, there's a massive falloff of retention. It's pretty apparent if you look at the dead hours of the game and see T1's population remaining relatively healthy. Unfortunately, those players hit t2, there's a lot of unexplained mechanics, and the team's bright idea the last 2 years of development was to tell them "just read the wiki, the info you need is there", which is not an acceptable medium of informing players.

I think I speak for a lot of folks when I say that the community remaining here is generally unwelcoming, the 'decent' players are isolationists outside of their organized groups and are often laden with sarcastic remarks to new players, and the only options players have for finding out crucial information is the forums (outdated medium, and outdated information, given how frequently the game changes), the wiki (a majority of people these days do not want to read, but may have been happy to in 2008 when Warhammer Online first came out - now a days, even those who would once have read up on that style of thing are unwilling), and other players. (see previous remark)

There needs to be an improved onboarding process for players, and veterans need to stop being shafted by the development team with unneeded changes that remove the fun or enjoyment of the game for players, and the players need not be blocked by an administrative vision that is causing the game's decline.
Solve those three issues, and I guarantee those population numbers will go up again.

I can't even touch the game now without getting absolutely emotional over the sad state it's in. I tried playing an old lowbie character yesterday, and immediately was disappointed that the best way to gear my 16 Witch Elf efficiently was to do PVE content. That's freakin' unacceptable. Paul Barnett would be extremely disappointed that you have to grind bears to max level before you could participate in the WAAAGH!

I know there's stuff being worked on, too. I know it's shallow to ask for that stuff to hurry up, but with no additional developer talent being onboarded and players who would potentially be interested, it's hard to get excited for any minor changes, even to these very issues, knowing they may be a year or more out. Please recruit additional developer talent - or consider removing the barrier of entry by open sourcing the code, database, and client tools so people can do your job alongside the core development team, without the added pressure of being part of the development team which has burned out countless individuals and caused endless infighting between team members over the years.

What is the answer though to get more people to sign up to help?

Is it an elitist attitude by those in charge? Is it a cautionary attitude due to previous experiences? I heard from someone that tried to help and stated that all the back of the house folks due is scream at each other and a certain developer is just out to get a job by adding this site on their references.

The bug tracker is just stock piled high with things that need worked on, but the mindset is to break more things than fix them, why?

I do not believe all that a certain person said (i do believe though it is somewhat true just not to this extreme) as heck to do this for free for a bunch of us ungrateful children would be mind boggling. So what do you see as the main reason the site can not get any more help than it does?

[Detangler]

If every person who posted here in this thread made a commitment to themselves to try to be less toxic and sarcastic towards new players asking in chat, to actively call out others who act toxic toward new players asking newbie questions in chat, and donated gold, potions, and talismans to anyone asking for advice in game, this community could probably retain a lot more players long term.

What's all that gold doing in your inventory, anyways? You gonna kit out a solo class in fleshrenders in the next few months and don't wanna try to farm it?

"Give it away, give it away, give it away, now!"

[zulnam]

yep. tier transition is a horrible player experience. both T1>T23 as well as T2/3>T4.

in a game that is all about competition, with a single continuous server that has hundreds of people who played for years, have gear, and know what they're doing it's downright sadistic to throw clueless new players in the fray.

i think you really need to love Warhammer Online or old Warhammer fantasy to get into this.

[Panzer80]

If every person who posted here in this thread made a commitment to themselves to try to be less toxic and sarcastic towards new players asking in chat, to actively call out others who act toxic toward new players asking newbie questions in chat, and donated gold, potions, and talismans to anyone asking for advice in game, this community could probably retain a lot more players long term.

What's all that gold doing in your inventory, anyways? You gonna kit out a solo class in fleshrenders in the next few months and don't wanna try to farm it?

"Give it away, give it away, give it away, now!"

Dude, this was soo spot on. Muh fleshrenders!

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

If every person who posted here in this thread made a commitment to themselves to try to be less toxic and sarcastic towards new players asking in chat, to actively call out others who act toxic toward new players asking newbie questions in chat, and donated gold, potions, and talismans to anyone asking for advice in game, this community could probably retain a lot more players long term.

What's all that gold doing in your inventory, anyways? You gonna kit out a solo class in fleshrenders in the next few months and don't wanna try to farm it?

"Give it away, give it away, give it away, now!"

Are you **** kidding me?! The Red Hot Chili Peppers?! THAT is the band/quote you go with?!

Correct Answer;
"Take all of your money, give it all to charity!" RIP Bradley Nowell.

As for your actual point... Well said. Will never happen, but the thought counts I guess.

Btw, my system is to toss 20g to everyone I see over R16 with a 25% mount. I will however continue to be a ****.