Scs need a change

[tazdingo]

snip

you're talking like using /5 will get you a decent group within 10 minutes. most of the time it won't. if you have a couple hours after work then spending half an hour finding a group, all the time queueing and so only managing to get 3/4 games in, it no longer becomes worth it as the thing you're doing that evening

this is a game that demands time and rewards you greatly for putting it in but its difficult to stay focused on a class if you can only really play enough on the weekend. casual sc play always filled that gap of giving you something to do between putting real work in but they're not filling that role right now, they really are unplayable for those not already established

sometimes you get a few good games in, play with the same people pub vs pub, everyone has a great time gets to really learn their class in a low stress setting where its back and forth. then like a rolling mist of sweat a 6man shows up, destroys everybody for 2 games and so they all just log off, with each time this happens one or two of them never logging in again

[lumpi33]

snip

you're talking like using /5 will get you a decent group within 10 minutes. most of the time it won't. if you have a couple hours after work then spending half an hour finding a group, all the time queueing and so only managing to get 3/4 games in, it no longer becomes worth it as the thing you're doing that evening

this is a game that demands time and rewards you greatly for putting it in but its difficult to stay focused on a class if you can only really play enough on the weekend. casual sc play always filled that gap of giving you something to do between putting real work in but they're not filling that role right now, they really are unplayable for those not already established

sometimes you get a few good games in, play with the same people pub vs pub, everyone has a great time gets to really learn their class in a low stress setting where its back and forth. then like a rolling mist of sweat a 6man shows up, destroys everybody for 2 games and so they all just log off, with each time this happens one or two of them never logging in again

Well said. 100% this. SCs should be for the quick and easy fun in between.

[Kuschell]

snip

you're talking like using /5 will get you a decent group within 10 minutes. most of the time it won't. if you have a couple hours after work then spending half an hour finding a group, all the time queueing and so only managing to get 3/4 games in, it no longer becomes worth it as the thing you're doing that evening

this is a game that demands time and rewards you greatly for putting it in but its difficult to stay focused on a class if you can only really play enough on the weekend. casual sc play always filled that gap of giving you something to do between putting real work in but they're not filling that role right now, they really are unplayable for those not already established

sometimes you get a few good games in, play with the same people pub vs pub, everyone has a great time gets to really learn their class in a low stress setting where its back and forth. then like a rolling mist of sweat a 6man shows up, destroys everybody for 2 games and so they all just log off, with each time this happens one or two of them never logging in again

Well said. 100% this. SCs should be for the quick and easy fun in between.

I agree. I think thats one of the most common experiences and i wont even mention that ppl in/5 also tend to have requierments like rr70 +
And yeah there is also a reason for that but thats not the point for this topic

[Kuschell]

And thats what i ment with ppl gonna cry. The first one stating learn to play, yeah what i read between the line is plz dont do that so i can just continue to stomp random pugs with crap setup with my 2-2-2 and tell ppl how skilled iam becouse i win 10/10. Why dont you go and prove yourself in ranked, than we will see how good you can play the Game?

Exactly. Most people here on the forum are long time players with guilds, decked out characters and premades. They are not a represenation of the RoR community and they tend to lie when it's about taking away some of their fun, whether it is nerfing their favorite toon or stomping in SCs.

The only thing that is not lying are the numbers.

I did an evaluation of 13596 T4 SCs from the Killboard data not long ago and it turned out that 2/3 of all T4 SCs are heavily one-sided with one side having more than 3 times the kills of the other side. A classic stomp. (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=48813)

SC STANDARD/T4 - Order dominating SC with > 3x Destro kills done: 4655 of 13596
SC STANDARD/T4 - Destro dominating SC with > 3x Order kills done: 4122 of 13596
SC STANDARD/T4 - Balanced SCs (neither dominating, kills <= 3x other kills): 4819 of 13596

To make the game overall more fun the aim should be to decrease this stomping rate in T4 SCs and have more balanced rounds with actual fighting.

1. By making the event SC PUG only or adding a PUG version for it (since this is the one that is mostly popping and being played)
2. By making sure that each PUG side has at least 1/6 healers, at least 1/6 tanks and at least 1/3 dps. By doing this you would get setups like 2/2/2, 1/3/2, 2/3/1, 3/2/1, 1/2/3 that can put up a fight.

These two simple changes would make the situation in T4 SCs A LOT better.

Interesting numbers and kinda mirroring the experience. Only point is there are times when even the 1/3 is like 1/10 or lower. I think its much lower at eu prime Time when most premades just stomp and in other times it might be 1/2. What iam trying to say is that the experience in main play time is way worse than what the numbers tell

[immdev]

I played 10 games yesterday and all I see is order premades of 35+ levels, while my team have 6 people below 25 level. 10 games, 0 wins, less than 10 kills COMBINED. How I'm supposed to do this event?

[Mergrim]

Sadly but 95% solo que on any side you face premede. If you make premede you meet mostly pugs..there is 0 fun at all on both situation.
Make diffrence weekly sc for solo and 6man que.

[Sulorie]

I played 10 games yesterday and all I see is order premades of 35+ levels, while my team have 6 people below 25 level. 10 games, 0 wins, less than 10 kills COMBINED. How I'm supposed to do this event?

Let's say one side has to lose and one side puts significantly more effort into winning.
You can't get all rewards just by participation, it is intended to play as a group for those weekend events, as it is more likely that players come together on weekends.

[Sofong]

low pop is the cause of all problems
less pop = less scs
u either dun que for 1 or 2 hrs let the premade get bored and logout
or u keep queing end up facing the same **** every sc basically

[Caduceus]

This issue is very old, but it is also difficult to tackle.

The ideal situation would be to split pugs from premades altogether, but pug scenario already kind of does that. However, then there is still the weekend SCs where the pug scenario is likely dead and pugging for the featured SC is not an option.

I don't find the argument that Sulorie put forward very convincing. Of course the side that is more skilled and puts in more effort will win, but the problem is that even very serious players don't always feel like try-harding, and often the choice is between try-harding or getting dominated by a premade, which means most will just log off.

This is a bad situation - a good game is enjoyable whether you're winning or losing, and the pug vs premade certainly does not tick that box. That's why I think it is a fair criticism.

The question is whether there's a fix for this. Given the low pop on RoR splitting the casual and tryhard scenes will be difficult. Ranked was an attempt at this, but I don't think it was successful.

Something to note is the fact that the weekend SC format essentially does the opposite, and lures the tryhards back into SCs where they might otherwise not go. I've often thought changing the weekend SC tasks to be less focused on winning and more focused on playing could be a way to somewhat alleviate this issue.

I also don't think pug stomping in SCs should be a good source of renown for high rr players. I think right now it is one of the best. Perhaps that can be changed somehow.

[Dabbart]

Spoiler:

you're talking like using /5 will get you a decent group within 10 minutes. most of the time it won't. if you have a couple hours after work then spending half an hour finding a group, all the time queueing and so only managing to get 3/4 games in, it no longer becomes worth it as the thing you're doing that evening

this is a game that demands time and rewards you greatly for putting it in but its difficult to stay focused on a class if you can only really play enough on the weekend. casual sc play always filled that gap of giving you something to do between putting real work in but they're not filling that role right now, they really are unplayable for those not already established

sometimes you get a few good games in, play with the same people pub vs pub, everyone has a great time gets to really learn their class in a low stress setting where its back and forth. then like a rolling mist of sweat a 6man shows up, destroys everybody for 2 games and so they all just log off, with each time this happens one or two of them never logging in again

Didn't disagre with anything you said. That's why we have a PUG sc only Q. For people without time to invest in finding a group. Or those that flat out don't care and won't group up.

And yes, the first few times it'll be hard to find a group. Then you'll make friends and it'll get easier each time. Same with everything in life. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

You have to invest time into this game. It's an MMo If you want lazy casual game play once a week, maybe PvP MMos aren't for you. This isn't a MOBA. You're supposed to progress.