Preventing regen items from stacking with each others

[cmraz]

in regards to heal debuffs...

Since day 1 of live they have done absolutely nothing.

The only time they make a damn difference is when you have a whole train on whoever is being focus healed with everyone throwing their heal "debuffs" on them at the same time.

rock, paper, scissors does not apply here. It's more like paper just floats away and never really dies unless rock stomps on it to allow scissors to finally regen all of the AP they used initially to burst them down. But then more paper shows up and it doesn't even matter.

This game (AoR AND RoR) is just one giant life metaphor of "go ahead and try to do what you're meant to do... but don't waste anymore time after that if you don't succeed... because you sure as hell can't out-burst a healer."

[Sofong]

i dunno why they have to make wh/we shaman/am such 1v1 1vn god mode, and yes all regen stuff including healing should be toned down.

[Sulorie]

i dunno why they have to make wh/we shaman/am such 1v1 1vn god mode, and yes all regen stuff including healing should be toned down.

Because they have some healing and can outlast their opponent? Skill differences or class types alone make some classes more suited for soloing.
This is no duelling game.
When some classes are naturally stronger in certain aspects, so what? Under normal circumstances you won't encounter them solo.

[Caduceus]

Regen builds that have no utility in group play should just be removed altogether from the game. It's a group game. These regen memes only cater to solo playstyles. I see no reason why certain classes should remain gimped in solo play because "the game isn't balanced around solo" when other classes get to be gods in spite of this same axiom.

I don’t play solo as I try to always help the team win and typically I always play tanks or healers as those give me the most sense of enjoyment to help Order win…..even though I am not a great player .

I am curious though, as I have been playing this game off and on for years, I hear many folks perhaps the majority of folks saying this is a group game. I understand warband efficiency and synergies etc. however I tend to look at ROR as an Order vs Destruction game …..and all that entails ….meaning the aggregate classes of one side vs the other. Could be warbands or muliple warbands, could be 12 v 12, could be 6 v 6, could be solo stealth or solo friendly classes …..all contributing to their side to help team Order or team Destuction carry the overall war to the other side. Perhaps I am naive or perhaps with the lower population now vs live it is simply better to try to play group friendly classes and play in groups? Just musing on the big picture

My gripe isn't with solo playstyles.

The problem is that regen builds break the 1v1 balance in favor of a handful of classes, and their utility is limited to solo play only. In other words, it both breaks the game in a certain area, and has no real reason to be there in the first place.

Ironically, 1v1 actually used to be vaguely balanced before all the regen memery began.

[Sulorie]

The problem is that regen builds break the 1v1 balance in favor of a handful of classes, and their utility is limited to solo play only. In other words, it both breaks the game in a certain area, and has no real reason to be there in the first place.

Ironically, 1v1 actually used to be vaguely balanced before all the regen memery began.

There is no and never was 1vs1 balance between classes at all. With regen items actually more classes become somewhat useful solo.

The regen actually helps with all the AOE or dots flying around, which otherwise easily kill solo players.
When someone has several quality potions with different cd and a certain spec and gear setup, you have a huge advantage against anyone who brings their "normal" warband spec and has worse potions.

Why would we remove more stuff from the game to dumb it down even more?
When unprepared solo players no longer get killed by other solo players, do we swap to premades once more, because it is unfair to fight them solo?

Building groups is the solution for basically everything.

[Caduceus]

There is no and never was 1vs1 balance between classes at all. With regen items actually more classes become somewhat useful solo.

Before regen builds became the norm 1v1 was actually vaguely balanced. I used to solo on one of the weakest 1v1 classes around. It wasn't perfect, but you always had a fighting chance.

The regen actually helps with all the AOE or dots flying around, which otherwise easily kill solo players.

Note that I am talking about regen builds and not all regen, but still I'm skeptical towards the suggestion that inexperienced solo players are running regen builds and that it's keeping them alive. Experienced solo players shouldn't need a full-fledged regen build at all to stay alive in RvR fights.

The people who run regen builds do so with the goal of being a god in 1v1 / 1vX.

When someone has several quality potions with different cd and a certain spec and gear setup, you have a huge advantage against anyone who brings their "normal" warband spec and has worse potions.

The issue is that only certain classes can run these god-tier regen builds - usually the ones that can pair the regen with more self-healing and/or high defenses. Due to the nature of regen builds, any other class trying to do it will simply waste a lot of good potions delaying the inevitable.

Why would we remove more stuff from the game to dumb it down even more?

In my opinion, the regen builds in question are the epitome of dumbed down. They mathematically win by virtue of stacking selfhealing and defenses. The only counterplay is to go regen yourself, and a lot of classes cannot do that effectively. And why would they want to? To be locked into an endless stalemate against other regen builds? Or to gank the players that are actually playing the game it is meant to be played, in builds that are useful in groups?

I would hold a different opinion if this was actually seen as an issue by the devs, and they would work towards giving every class a viable solo spec. This isn't the case - solo playstyles aren't part of the balance dilemma. Which is all the more reason why something so broken and plainly disruptive (when soloers can default 1v3 people who actually made the effort to group up something is terribly wrong) should be cracked down on.

[SuperStar]

There is no and never was 1vs1 balance between classes at all. With regen items actually more classes become somewhat useful solo.

Before regen builds became the norm 1v1 was actually vaguely balanced. I used to solo on one of the weakest 1v1 classes around. It wasn't perfect, but you always had a fighting chance.

The regen actually helps with all the AOE or dots flying around, which otherwise easily kill solo players.

Note that I am talking about regen builds and not all regen, but still I'm skeptical towards the suggestion that inexperienced solo players are running regen builds and that it's keeping them alive. Experienced solo players shouldn't need a full-fledged regen build at all to stay alive in RvR fights.

The people who run regen builds do so with the goal of being a god in 1v1 / 1vX.

When someone has several quality potions with different cd and a certain spec and gear setup, you have a huge advantage against anyone who brings their "normal" warband spec and has worse potions.

The issue is that only certain classes can run these god-tier regen builds - usually the ones that can pair the regen with more self-healing and/or high defenses. Due to the nature of regen builds, any other class trying to do it will simply waste a lot of good potions delaying the inevitable.

Why would we remove more stuff from the game to dumb it down even more?

In my opinion, the regen builds in question are the epitome of dumbed down. They mathematically win by virtue of stacking selfhealing and defenses. The only counterplay is to go regen yourself, and a lot of classes cannot do that effectively. And why would they want to? To be locked into an endless stalemate against other regen builds? Or to gank the players that are actually playing the game it is meant to be played, in builds that are useful in groups?

I would hold a different opinion if this was actually seen as an issue by the devs, and they would work towards giving every class a viable solo spec. This isn't the case - solo playstyles aren't part of the balance dilemma. Which is all the more reason why something so broken and plainly disruptive (when soloers can default 1v3 people who actually made the effort to group up something is terribly wrong) should be cracked down on.

I dont know any class who cannot solo or doesnt have solo build.

All tanks have (they can kill anything def welf and regen wh can be problematic)
Am shami OP (can kill anything depends on the kite)
Sw sh depends on the kite very good burst imo aganist squishy targets
Wh welf very good
Engi magus regen deftard spec or sniper both good at solo play
Shield dok/wp or dps wp/dok both good at solo
Wl maybe the best soloer with the boring "my lion is the player iam the pet" build
Mara idk on live it was a very good soloer i dont have mara here and i didnt see them.
I saw some rp do solo imo its not good zealot also bad.
Choppa slaya with potions you can play solo also you can build a very huge selfregen build. And you have self heal ability too.

I dont see huge problem in solo balance of course not every spec is good against everything.

But you can find the solution against anybody if you want.

If the devs remove the regen items the tanks and dps am/shammy will be shine again in solo.
If they remove the regen from sov items then shield dok/wp imo. There will be "apex" predator, always). (Not really apex coz everbody have 1-2 counter what you should avoid)

(Regen welf is op but i just made one so no need nerf 80+ full glass cannon bal wh, and lion with solo spec is problematic but iam lowbie and i can avoid them, everything else is prey)

[bradbury111]

If you target and nuke regen builds, whats next? riposte tactic? Because it relies on the same principle, selfish stacking defense and outlasting your opponent in an 1v1vX environment.

Against parry some classes has a "counterplay", for example choppa can lower parry % of 50%. If it's true heal debuff doesn't work on regen I will start from there and fix that mechanic and make it works, it's the perfect counterplay and a reasonable change that add strategy and tactic to both side.

[nocturnalguest]

when soloers can default 1v3 people who actually made the effort to group up something is terribly wrong

Thats a myth. 1vX is only possible if X are ragtag noobs or make incredibly big mistakes.

[Sulorie]

The regen actually helps with all the AOE or dots flying around, which otherwise easily kill solo players.

Note that I am talking about regen builds and not all regen, but still I'm skeptical towards the suggestion that inexperienced solo players are running regen builds and that it's keeping them alive. Experienced solo players shouldn't need a full-fledged regen build at all to stay alive in RvR fights.

The people who run regen builds do so with the goal of being a god in 1v1 / 1vX.

This is no question of experience and by the way new players will lose with anything, even fully geared "solo" chars.
The thing is, you can build a lot more classes than WE/WH for soloing with enough dedication and ressources. A new player won't have the possibilities to aquire regen gear, nor can they judge a situation to find the right time to attack.
Without regen gear, you narrow down the number of classes, who shine at soloing. You actually widen the gap between classes.