Preventing regen items from stacking with each others

[SuperStar]

If you target and nuke regen builds, whats next? riposte tactic? Because it relies on the same principle, selfish stacking defense and outlasting your opponent in an 1v1vX environment.

Against parry some classes has a "counterplay", for example choppa can lower parry % of 50%. If it's true heal debuff doesn't work on regen I will start from there and fix that mechanic and make it works, it's the perfect counterplay and a reasonable change that add strategy and tactic to both side.

Its not a good counter coz its only one ability aganist a full build, 5items atleast, rr points etc. It would makes the regen build useless.

-parry,block slaya have it and many of us crying about it the rest ablity in this theme have a very big cd or not a big decreaseing.

Like i wrote in my post almost every class has regen build and everyclass has solobuild (except zealot)

I dont see the problem here i mean yeah i play a different class and build to be good at solo what i would like but it is what it is.

I would like to play a shamy and cast everything while i running and have a different mechanic coz i dont want to hot others. But we cannot get everything what we want, i think.

If you wanna play a class cannon as solo you will suffer, but in good group you will shine.

If you wanna play solo and be good you need a solobuild. Thats all.

[SuperStar]

when soloers can default 1v3 people who actually made the effort to group up something is terribly wrong

Thats a myth. 1vX is only possible if X are ragtag noobs or make incredibly big mistakes.

Solo speced can kill 2-3 non solo speced char (high lvl) it is sad maybe but you can adapt and bring the solo build or a different class.

[Caduceus]

If you target and nuke regen builds, whats next? riposte tactic? Because it relies on the same principle, selfish stacking defense and outlasting your opponent in an 1v1vX environment.

Against parry some classes has a "counterplay", for example choppa can lower parry % of 50%. If it's true heal debuff doesn't work on regen I will start from there and fix that mechanic and make it works, it's the perfect counterplay and a reasonable change that add strategy and tactic to both side.

Counterplay is the key word. Regen in the hands of certain classes has no counterplay. The best other classes can do is go incredibly defensive regen as well, and hope for the best. This makes them useless in the context the game is designed around, so I am not sure why solo players should be encouraged to choose this path.

It's essentially a prisoner's dilemma.

Again, I have no gripe with solo players. I have a gripe with the way these builds dominate everything else with no counterplay.

The thing is, you can build a lot more classes than WE/WH for soloing with enough dedication and ressources. A new player won't have the possibilities to aquire regen gear, nor can they judge a situation to find the right time to attack.

Well, isn't that all the more reason this needs attention?

What good is it to give only wealthy and experienced players access to the tools with which they can then bully new and intermediate players?

That's sadly what's happening. New players get destroyed, they group up with other new players, and continue to get destroyed. Eventually when they form warbands this issue dissolves, however in the process it cuts out the entire middle.

I see groups of new players being bullied in this way all the time and the issue is, there is no counterplay. A more experienced player understands that, and will simply leave. New players will stay, puzzled about how a game can be so broken.

Without regen gear, you narrow down the number of classes, who shine at soloing. You actually widen the gap between classes.

I don't think that's true. AM / Shaman and BG / IB would likely still be strong, but the rest of the playing field would be very level. At least, that's what I experienced when I used to solo before regen builds became popular. I have no desire to go back to soloing. Right now I am just worried about the disruptive impact it has on the game for solo playstyles to be catered to by providing these very specific builds which are useless in every other context, yet allow players to utterly dominate in solo.

[wachlarz]

when soloers can default 1v3 people who actually made the effort to group up something is terribly wrong

Thats a myth. 1vX is only possible if X are ragtag noobs or make incredibly big mistakes.

Solo speced can kill 2-3 non solo speced char (high lvl) it is sad maybe but you can adapt and bring the solo build or a different class.

aoe speced in wb can kill tons of solos.

[bradbury111]

Counterplay is the key word. Regen in the hands of certain classes has no counterplay. The best other classes can do is go incredibly defensive regen as well, and hope for the best. This makes them useless in the context the game is designed around, so I am not sure why solo players should be encouraged to choose this path.

It's essentially a prisoner's dilemma.

I agree at moment there's no counterplay, that's why for start fix/add the counterplay then probably gonna happen not everyone can counterplay regen, and it's fine, if you know the meta is regen, one party member will adapt and bring the right counterplay for your party.
I see strategy here and group play.

[SuperStar]

Counterplay is the key word. Regen in the hands of certain classes has no counterplay. The best other classes can do is go incredibly defensive regen as well, and hope for the best. This makes them useless in the context the game is designed around, so I am not sure why solo players should be encouraged to choose this path.

It's essentially a prisoner's dilemma.

I agree at moment there's no counterplay, that's why for start fix/add the counterplay then probably gonna happen not everyone can counterplay regen, and it's fine, if you know the meta is regen, one party member will adapt and bring the right counterplay for your party.
I see strategy here and group play.

Almost everybody has healdebuff and it can be up all the time its not counter its just destroy the regen build. If no regen build then solo tanks will shine if you kill the solo tanks then am/shamy will shine. Its fit for me i never had a rr 80shammy.

But every change brings a new meta and new apex predator and probably we lose some players too with drastically change. Ppl spend lot of gold/time to get the regen gear.

[reynor007]

Do heal debuffs affect +regen? I was always under the impression that they did not. That would actually be a nice change and offer some counter play.

it just doesn't make sense, if you take everything possible for regeneration you will get around 600 in 4 seconds, losing a huge amount of stats, most often people have around 300-400
any healer does 3 times more per gkd
marauder heals 1k (5sec)
dok heals 1500 per hit
and you really think that it is necessary to weaken the regen?

[Fenris78]

The issue is not the regen spec, but when it stacks with already powerful tanking abilities (WE/WH/Sham especially), without the need for real sacrifices on offensive stats (again, WE with WB + 15% dmg tactic doesnt need anything else to make damage, while WH need full str talismans to be remotely effective).

Some classes are already good for soloing, and have access to many tools for kiting and surviving ; if you combine these to regen + defensive build, it could be OK for most people IF those classes had to actually sacrifice a meaningful portion on offensive skills ansd stats.

What we see actually are classes that can do both without issue, being equally lethal AND tanky enough to actually win 1v2, 1v3+, thanks to regen items stacking, defensive stuff/renown AND defensive skills, while still able to pack pretty much the same dps as a fully offensive-specced dps.

That's totally not a good way to balance stuff in a multiplayer game, wich lead to very unbalanced fights since there is barely any counterplay to those classes/specs.

Shamans/AM with kiting tools, tanking tools, routinely dealing DoTs for like 4k dmg over 15s (twice the value of any other similar rdps DoT, for reference), while running away at a safe distance (faster than you for the Shaman), and killing you with 4k channeled damage (about the dps of same ability from a BW/Sorc), while kiting, tanking, and healing themselves...

A def WE running away while dealing 6x 400+ corporeal add damage, with unblockable ranged attacks wich ignore Toughness, while being impervious to most of incoming damage thanks to their 600 absorb proc every 2 gcd...

Are those really the archetypes of desired solo gameplay ?
Making thoses classes, wich are meant to be either cloth-armored healers/support dps/pure mdps, behave like tanks or ranged pure DPS ?
Odd way to adress the balance issues between archetypes...

Again, there would have no issue IF those kind of specs didnt lead to getting the best of the two worlds... At least the regen Mara running in Monstro stance could not kill you THAT easy while being very tanky. He made actual sacrifices for being something else than his initial role, and that should be the absolute case for every class in this game.

[b00n]

Do heal debuffs affect +regen? I was always under the impression that they did not. That would actually be a nice change and offer some counter play.

it just doesn't make sense, if you take everything possible for regeneration you will get around 600 in 4 seconds, losing a huge amount of stats, most often people have around 300-400
any healer does 3 times more per gkd
marauder heals 1k (5sec)
dok heals 1500 per hit
and you really think that it is necessary to weaken the regen?

any healer don't have that much avoidance + damage potential

[Akalukz]

What i find funny/interesting is how so many complaints about solo/small-scale issues. This one, the Marauder pull. But yet no true talk about a couple of sklls that is undefendable and can/does wipe an entire force in seconds. But ohh watch out for the regen WH/WE (but not the WL?) or that super terrible embrace or that war reporting rascal.