LOTD balance anyone?

[miklosch]

No need of a further population restriction in LOTD.
LOTD should be at least twice a week.
It is so far the best game mode this game offers.
Every group scale has a purpose in it.
Mindless lemming behavior gets swiftly punished.
You can't hide behind walls.
Also, we would all enjoy more clown like leaders contemplating what rocked their world in full display on the forums.


Two times playing with Order I took my bunch of misfits and ensured the realm would stay on top of map control.
Didn't really see anyone else out there doing it. Out of some strange reason we won.

Now now, don't be jealous! Not my fault the Grand Alliance has a questionable approach and thinks to be a benefit to the Order realm.
Please keep on "flinging ****" at each other, it is highly entertaining.

this

[Snowhawk]

Last LOTD i was really surprised.
I was in 1 WB on Destroside...

We were able to get on the enemy side right at the start and capture 4 BOs (bitterwind, bones, nest) without resistance. Only 1 PUG WB (not full)...
the tactical error of the order was already visible at the start.

only at the fourth BO (@River) did order fight back. after that destruction already had the upper hand (spawned direct bitterwind and take back) for the recap and was faster. (some BOs locked than for order )

How can it be that 1 PUG WB of destro players occupy half the map on order side at the beginning?

simple: wake up

[Cyrylius]

Small scale on equal numbers is quite balanced. There are some perks that orders got, some destro. No problem here.

But small scale when outnumbered is quite different situation. And on that premise orders lose heavily cos pull game got heavily buffed. Sh rework also helped for that.

Traditional answer to this is "destro has pulls to hamper kiting groups, order has leaps to catch them". Why do you not consider those tools to be equal? Destro has a grand total of 2 pulls, one of them being close range too. As a small scale group managing the few enemies who can actually use those (and from the statistics we know that mara is among the least populated classes in lotd) is not an issue, you have runie staggers taunts los tools and many more. Ive seen (from both sides) order kite groups being virtually invincible against unorganized destro players despite the pulls. Obviously some compositions will be much more affected, but many more can play around the CC on destro really effectively.

[Hulgore]

Keep on living the dream that rvr is about fair fights.

Yep I think this summerizes it pretty well

[Snowhawk]

Fair fights in a game who is not balanced on 1vs1?

[Gladiolix]

It is so far the best game mode this game offers.

In theory I kind of agree, in reality not. As a guild (in Lotd 6-12man group) we've had one really good LoTD run, lots of good tough fights, the whole expedition being anybodys game right until the end. Then all the rest enemy just quits right after the first fight, or blobs up and farms kills at some BO, letting Destro just cap everything around them. Extremely boring for both sides.

This saturday before the expedition, I heard Order had like 45 people in same discord and I knew immediately how it's going to turn out. Destro capped our side quickly, we capped mid BOs and moved to Order side to snipe their BOs. There wasn't really any proper resistance in any point. The big blob all order moved around with is cumbersome to manouver, and ineffective at capping BOs. For a small group it's easy to avoid, and once they engage Destro blob, easy for a good group to flank.

To me my guilds performance this saturday shows pretty well how a good disciplined, organised and discord-led smallscale group can perform in LoTD if you're doing the right things. Makes me wonder what is the reason Order decides to just megazerg every single LoTD. I'dd rather have Order dominate LoTDs we join in, rather than the snoozefests like we had this saturday and many other expeditions where it's one or two good fights and then just waiting for 4000 points..

[Hulgore]

Fair fights in a game who is not balanced on 1vs1?

I've read this answer I don't know how much time, it's really tiring. It serves as an excuse for every unfair and unchallenging aspect of the game. If balancing the game for 1v1 could transform it into something else than huge zergy laggy one-sided fights it would be for the better. Yet, there are still people to brag out about how this game is balanced around massive fights, and lotd simply shows us that it's a failure

[madrocks]

Spoiler:

It is so far the best game mode this game offers.

In theory I kind of agree, in reality not. As a guild (in Lotd 6-12man group) we've had one really good LoTD run, lots of good tough fights, the whole expedition being anybodys game right until the end. Then all the rest enemy just quits right after the first fight, or blobs up and farms kills at some BO, letting Destro just cap everything around them. Extremely boring for both sides.

This saturday before the expedition, I heard Order had like 45 people in same discord and I knew immediately how it's going to turn out. Destro capped our side quickly, we capped mid BOs and moved to Order side to snipe their BOs. There wasn't really any proper resistance in any point. The big blob all order moved around with is cumbersome to manouver, and ineffective at capping BOs. For a small group it's easy to avoid, and once they engage Destro blob, easy for a good group to flank.

To me my guilds performance this saturday shows pretty well how a good disciplined, organised and discord-led smallscale group can perform in LoTD if you're doing the right things. Makes me wonder what is the reason Order decides to just megazerg every single LoTD. I'dd rather have Order dominate LoTDs we join in, rather than the snoozefests like we had this saturday and many other expeditions where it's one or two good fights and then just waiting for 4000 points..

Yes, your war story is a good example of how a good 12m can do their part in the expedition. I’ve encountered a very similar situation.
I believe a solution could be to slightly increase the points generated from the battlefield objectives, but not to a point were dodging a fight is more rewarding.


Now someone here brought up aoe cap in this topic and that’s a good thing, although I believe it needs an own topic with adults expressing their valid feedback supported by facts and experiences, not gut feelings and strange scary predictions or self interest fuelled bullshit.
But massive aoe and the experience a player has in a very large scale fight are obviously connected.
Look, some people don’t like the big fights.
I understand that, it’s not for everyone and not for everyone’s computer.
It’s also not for every leader as you lose control of the situation very quickly and become dependent on what the other allied leaders do.
It can be very disappointing when your warband just ends up in the blender because of a bad engagement angle or your realm traded you, or your composition just didn’t counter your opponent, or you were simply outnumbered.
But there is also a thrill in these big messy fights, you are seemingly hopeless surrounded by red tags, you see your wingman warband just died horribly to a reckless blob of slayers and you know that the swarm’s next victim is definitely you! But then out of nowhere two more friendly warbands show up at the dunes ridge in the enemies back and plow right into the fight turning the tide for the next moments..
Yes I am a nerd.
The actual aoe cap makes fights like this faster and more boring, there is barely room for mistakes, and we all know that in this community many people fat finger buttons all day long, there is no shame in that.
Right? There is a simple reason why 2 pug warbands go against a premade/guild warband, you just need the 48 people to create a critical mass that somewhat matches the opponents.
I was in massive fights with a lower aoe cap, along with FMJ PnP and who ever was active, they were glorios af, they were longer and they gave room for less good players to enjoy the game too. Not everyone on this server is a squeaker and wears gaming gloves not to sweat all over the keyboard
Anyway, a banality.

[Uberlix]

Can you lads fighting over class balance take it to a relevant thread before you get my favourite weekly thread locked

I am still amazed that this thread is up btw, given the last couple pages. Keep the entertainment flowing folks!

[Ninjagon]

Ninjagon still whining about lotd losses lmao.
Classic Bene Tlielax move

First: Since when the discussion about LodT at Suggesions & Feedback subforum is whining? Show some respect, Asderas27!

Second: If the last LotD numbers (at the start) were equal, then there is no issue, no balance problem at all. The better won, grats.
If lots of Order players left LotD after first wipe, shame on them (they did), but that's another story, not a balance issue.

Third: The effort for capturing and holding BOs is the zone mechanics for the victory. It is not "PvE", nor boring! (Play the small scale there and you will have enough of adrenaline).

Last one: Not "Bene Tlielax" you silly one! It's BENE TLEILAX, a secret society and major power in Frank Herbert's science fiction Dune universe.
You can find more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Tleilax