LOTD balance anyone?

[Hulgore]

Keep on living the dream that rvr is about fair fights.

Yep I think this summerizes it pretty well

[Snowhawk]

Fair fights in a game who is not balanced on 1vs1?

[Gladiolix]

It is so far the best game mode this game offers.

In theory I kind of agree, in reality not. As a guild (in Lotd 6-12man group) we've had one really good LoTD run, lots of good tough fights, the whole expedition being anybodys game right until the end. Then all the rest enemy just quits right after the first fight, or blobs up and farms kills at some BO, letting Destro just cap everything around them. Extremely boring for both sides.

This saturday before the expedition, I heard Order had like 45 people in same discord and I knew immediately how it's going to turn out. Destro capped our side quickly, we capped mid BOs and moved to Order side to snipe their BOs. There wasn't really any proper resistance in any point. The big blob all order moved around with is cumbersome to manouver, and ineffective at capping BOs. For a small group it's easy to avoid, and once they engage Destro blob, easy for a good group to flank.

To me my guilds performance this saturday shows pretty well how a good disciplined, organised and discord-led smallscale group can perform in LoTD if you're doing the right things. Makes me wonder what is the reason Order decides to just megazerg every single LoTD. I'dd rather have Order dominate LoTDs we join in, rather than the snoozefests like we had this saturday and many other expeditions where it's one or two good fights and then just waiting for 4000 points..

[Hulgore]

Fair fights in a game who is not balanced on 1vs1?

I've read this answer I don't know how much time, it's really tiring. It serves as an excuse for every unfair and unchallenging aspect of the game. If balancing the game for 1v1 could transform it into something else than huge zergy laggy one-sided fights it would be for the better. Yet, there are still people to brag out about how this game is balanced around massive fights, and lotd simply shows us that it's a failure

[JohnnyWayne]

Last LOTD i was really surprised.
I was in 1 WB on Destroside...

We were able to get on the enemy side right at the start and capture 4 BOs (bitterwind, bones, nest) without resistance. Only 1 PUG WB (not full)...
the tactical error of the order was already visible at the start.

only at the fourth BO (@River) did order fight back. after that destruction already had the upper hand (spawned direct bitterwind and take back) for the recap and was faster. (some BOs locked than for order )

How can it be that 1 PUG WB of destro players occupy half the map on order side at the beginning?

simple: wake up

Because of this:

Small scale on equal numbers is quite balanced. There are some perks that orders got, some destro. No problem here.

But small scale when outnumbered is quite different situation. And on that premise orders lose heavily cos pull game got heavily buffed. Sh rework also helped for that.

Small scale groups on order side are fewer and don't play lotd zerg fest because of this.
To be honest, I don't see any good reason to get into specifics about class balance in a forum thread. People gravitate to a lot of what-about-isms in these discussions, getting hung up on details and living in their own filter bubble. No value gained in such discussions.

Seriously, I challenge you next time to leave the safety of the zerg and lead/join a 6-12 man to take BOs. You'll actually run into a lot of enemies in small scale fights that actually will test skill and tactics. A lot more than you realize.

Not sure what you are going on about. I've been playing small scale mostly lately, usually 3 mans. Anything above 6 can hardly be called a small scale group.

Spoiler:

Both realms have their distinct advantages. Figure out what order has. It might require playing destro. Use them. Win fights. Then win lotd. If you can't, even after trying everything you can think of, make another thread on forum.

Ok so, order is good at: Higher numbers than destro. Now lets look what the anti zerg mechanic nerfs... Right, exactly that. Now go figure. Then the next thing is, as it was mentioned here before, small scale groups take the BOs in lotd. Order has few small scale groups as it stands now, especially even fewer interested in this pve **** show lotd is. Why does order have less small scale groups? It was mentioned - pull meta, overtuned small scale classes on destro (looking at you, WE, rSH, Shaman and sorc) and more utility things like general CC, moral and AP drain. Most people intersted in small scale gravitate naturally to the side they have a easier / better time on. Now, once again, go figure. Seems like everything is rigged against order in lotd. That is why in other areas order is doing better I'd say. I really wish they would fix fort pop to have a baseline of 30 people and then only scale up, but that is, as I said before, a different matter.

Not sure what I'm going on about? How about your previous post:

seems work as intend. 1 side pve lotd ather side pve rvr. seems good for future when in ror titles says war is ewrhywhere. yes its ewhrewhere byt its not war its pve.

I think you realised by now that I am not Normanis. The name indicates this, but I think it became also clear during your discussion.
To mention it, I consider solo players also small scale players. Everything equal or below to 6 mans.

[madrocks]

Spoiler:

It is so far the best game mode this game offers.

In theory I kind of agree, in reality not. As a guild (in Lotd 6-12man group) we've had one really good LoTD run, lots of good tough fights, the whole expedition being anybodys game right until the end. Then all the rest enemy just quits right after the first fight, or blobs up and farms kills at some BO, letting Destro just cap everything around them. Extremely boring for both sides.

This saturday before the expedition, I heard Order had like 45 people in same discord and I knew immediately how it's going to turn out. Destro capped our side quickly, we capped mid BOs and moved to Order side to snipe their BOs. There wasn't really any proper resistance in any point. The big blob all order moved around with is cumbersome to manouver, and ineffective at capping BOs. For a small group it's easy to avoid, and once they engage Destro blob, easy for a good group to flank.

To me my guilds performance this saturday shows pretty well how a good disciplined, organised and discord-led smallscale group can perform in LoTD if you're doing the right things. Makes me wonder what is the reason Order decides to just megazerg every single LoTD. I'dd rather have Order dominate LoTDs we join in, rather than the snoozefests like we had this saturday and many other expeditions where it's one or two good fights and then just waiting for 4000 points..

Yes, your war story is a good example of how a good 12m can do their part in the expedition. I’ve encountered a very similar situation.
I believe a solution could be to slightly increase the points generated from the battlefield objectives, but not to a point were dodging a fight is more rewarding.


Now someone here brought up aoe cap in this topic and that’s a good thing, although I believe it needs an own topic with adults expressing their valid feedback supported by facts and experiences, not gut feelings and strange scary predictions or self interest fuelled bullshit.
But massive aoe and the experience a player has in a very large scale fight are obviously connected.
Look, some people don’t like the big fights.
I understand that, it’s not for everyone and not for everyone’s computer.
It’s also not for every leader as you lose control of the situation very quickly and become dependent on what the other allied leaders do.
It can be very disappointing when your warband just ends up in the blender because of a bad engagement angle or your realm traded you, or your composition just didn’t counter your opponent, or you were simply outnumbered.
But there is also a thrill in these big messy fights, you are seemingly hopeless surrounded by red tags, you see your wingman warband just died horribly to a reckless blob of slayers and you know that the swarm’s next victim is definitely you! But then out of nowhere two more friendly warbands show up at the dunes ridge in the enemies back and plow right into the fight turning the tide for the next moments..
Yes I am a nerd.
The actual aoe cap makes fights like this faster and more boring, there is barely room for mistakes, and we all know that in this community many people fat finger buttons all day long, there is no shame in that.
Right? There is a simple reason why 2 pug warbands go against a premade/guild warband, you just need the 48 people to create a critical mass that somewhat matches the opponents.
I was in massive fights with a lower aoe cap, along with FMJ PnP and who ever was active, they were glorios af, they were longer and they gave room for less good players to enjoy the game too. Not everyone on this server is a squeaker and wears gaming gloves not to sweat all over the keyboard
Anyway, a banality.

[Uberlix]

Can you lads fighting over class balance take it to a relevant thread before you get my favourite weekly thread locked

I am still amazed that this thread is up btw, given the last couple pages. Keep the entertainment flowing folks!

[Ninjagon]

Ninjagon still whining about lotd losses lmao.
Classic Bene Tlielax move

First: Since when the discussion about LodT at Suggesions & Feedback subforum is whining? Show some respect, Asderas27!

Second: If the last LotD numbers (at the start) were equal, then there is no issue, no balance problem at all. The better won, grats.
If lots of Order players left LotD after first wipe, shame on them (they did), but that's another story, not a balance issue.

Third: The effort for capturing and holding BOs is the zone mechanics for the victory. It is not "PvE", nor boring! (Play the small scale there and you will have enough of adrenaline).

Last one: Not "Bene Tlielax" you silly one! It's BENE TLEILAX, a secret society and major power in Frank Herbert's science fiction Dune universe.
You can find more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Tleilax

[Cyrylius]

Ninjagon still whining about lotd losses lmao.
Classic Bene Tlielax move

First: Since when the discussion about LodT at Suggesions & Feedback subforum is whining? Show some respect, Asderas27!

Second: If the last LotD numbers (at the start) were equal, then there is no issue, no balance problem at all. The better won, grats.
If lots of Order players left LotD after first wipe, shame on them (they did), but that's another story, not a balance issue.

Third: The effort for capturing and holding BOs is the zone mechanics for the victory. It is not "PvE", nor boring! (Play the small scale there and you will have enough of adrenaline).

Last one: Not "Bene Tlielax" you silly one! It's BENE TLEILAX, a secret society and major power in Frank Herbert's science fiction Dune universe.
You can find more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Tleilax

always thought its Tileax, after the Old World nation of Tilea. Thanks for info!
Tilea is knows for backstabbing and shady politicking BTW.

[Ninjagon]

always thought its Tileax, after the Old World nation of Tilea. Thanks for info!
Tilea is knows for backstabbing and shady politicking BTW.

Oh I didn't knew this one! Thx