Why is there no 3rd sov set?

[DirkDaring]

I did and the set seriously lacks crit in turn for the same amount of armor penetration a horrible trade. You speak of 4% parry while sov gets 4% block a way better stat (zealot gains 18% more stats and ap also a better trade in my eye). The set further lacks initiative base stats which as dok with the lowerst base init will force you into having to pay for it either through rr or talis. But we can further discuss how good this set is. Overall it looses about 10% stats. It's not to scoff at tbh. But all of this doesn't matter I don't see how more variety in sets can be a bad thing which somehow forces these snarky comments about how I haven't considered the previous level set. I guess running opposition is fun.

The actual cost to just add a 3rd set for the 3rd tree is quite small and this would be worthwhile for most classes.

Sounds like you need to Spec Shield DOK, if you want Block and not Dual Wield , for parry, since you can not block without a shield lol

[Valfaros]

Sounds like you need to Spec Shield DOK, if you want Block and not Dual Wield , for parry, since you can not block without a shield lol

If you can't compare stats even just by how worthwhile the stat is independent on which spec it is used on then I don't know what to tell you... Maybe learn the game? Look how rr points grant stats? Maybe stop discussing as you can't compare sets?

I mean it's not that difficult to see that having 4% block on a piece is not equivalent to 4% parry a stat just get while going for weapon skill. It's one of the cheapest things to get through rr. But somehow you can't even understand that. It either shows you are actually clueless or purposefully play dumb.

You're missing that the Warlord and Sovereign sets were designed and released together as a set of sets: one set per mastery path. Two of the three mastery paths were assigned to Sovereign sets and the final mastery path was assigned the Warlord set. If the path chosen for the Warlord set (Torture?) had been chosen to be one of the Sovereign sets then it would have the same stats and set bonuses as now but with very slightly higher numbers to reflect the increase to item level.

If you want new itemisation and bonuses for a 3rd Sov set, then wouldn't that mean we also need 2 new Warlord sets with different itemisation for the other two paths?

Why would you introduce more sets for lower levels. For mixing sets bis will always be with vic or trio + the 10 k thing so there is no need. The base gear however that you mix with should be equivalent. I'm just talking about endgear so that every spec has the same goal to play for. I don't know why this is a odd concept for you as its the case in any game.

I mean you mention it yourself "very slightyl higher" so how is that fair. It doesn't matter how big of a difference it is. It also means you strip the player of a whole set to play for. A big incentive to continue playing the game.

[Rydiak]

Warlord is an incredible set for both melee-heal and DPS DoKs/WPs though...

[Keula]

I did and the set seriously lacks crit in turn for the same amount of armor penetration a horrible trade. You speak of 4% parry while sov gets 4% block a way better stat (zealot gains 18% more stats and ap also a better trade in my eye). The set further lacks initiative base stats which as dok with the lowerst base init will force you into having to pay for it either through rr or talis. But we can further discuss how good this set is. Overall it looses about 10% stats. It's not to scoff at tbh. But all of this doesn't matter I don't see how more variety in sets can be a bad thing which somehow forces these snarky comments about how I haven't considered the previous level set. I guess running opposition is fun.

The actual cost to just add a 3rd set for the 3rd tree is quite small and this would be worthwhile for most classes.

Well your lack of knowledge on what warlord actually is makes you seem like you really don't know what you're talking about. Lacking initiative? it's 11 MORE initiative on the full warlord vs off sov and the overall is 4 stats more on warlord vs 86 armor on the off sov. And the % stats ain't really that much better either 12 block, 1 crit and 6 reduced armor pen vs 9 armor pen 99 melee power and 2 ap/s on the warlord. Yea block is more expensive to get, but it comes at a cost of other stats which are obviously more useful as a dps dok and even as a shield dok I'd rather not use 5 piece off sov as block ain't gonna save you against slayers or KD:s. Not that you would ever want to use full set on shield or dps dok, as you can go want to go 5/3 warlord/off-sov, or if you have the victorious jewel 5/4, 2/3/4 as the 4 piece vic buff is pretty good.

Here's the minmaxing tool so you can go and educate yourself on what the sets actually do: viewtopic.php?t=29557

[Valfaros]

Well your lack of knowledge on what warlord actually is makes you seem like you really don't know what you're talking about. Lacking initiative? it's 11 MORE initiative on the full warlord vs off sov and the overall is 4 stats more on warlord vs 86 armor on the off sov. And the % stats ain't really that much better either 12 block, 1 crit and 6 reduced armor pen vs 9 armor pen 99 melee power and 2 ap/s on the warlord. Yea block is more expensive to get, but it comes at a cost of other stats which are obviously more useful as a dps dok and even as a shield dok I'd rather not use 5 piece off sov as block ain't gonna save you against slayers or KD:s. Not that you would ever want to use full set on shield or dps dok, as you can go want to go 5/3 warlord/off-sov, or if you have the victorious jewel 5/4, 2/3/4 as the 4 piece vic buff is pretty good.

Here's the minmaxing tool so you can go and educate yourself on what the sets actually do: viewtopic.php?t=29557

I took a look at the sov set as the off sov was changed to what it is now. Since it cleraly removed stats for the block. Seemed easier than trying to fairly convert block and critical hit rate. Like plainly 1:1 heal set wp for str, heal crit for meele crit, tough for wp, red. armor pen. to armor pen. It's how other classes converted stats from different sets on sov (generally). Like you mention it yourself that it came with a cost. You can argue around as much as you want but you are not getting any crit onto warlord, it's 5% which is terrible.

But once again it doesn't matter. What is your actual argument for why there shouldn't be a equivalent sov set. Cause there is a remotly fitting set available that lacks some stats (even if its just a little) as everyone agrees? Not a great argument, independent how hostile you get.

[Keula]

Well your lack of knowledge on what warlord actually is makes you seem like you really don't know what you're talking about. Lacking initiative? it's 11 MORE initiative on the full warlord vs off sov and the overall is 4 stats more on warlord vs 86 armor on the off sov. And the % stats ain't really that much better either 12 block, 1 crit and 6 reduced armor pen vs 9 armor pen 99 melee power and 2 ap/s on the warlord. Yea block is more expensive to get, but it comes at a cost of other stats which are obviously more useful as a dps dok and even as a shield dok I'd rather not use 5 piece off sov as block ain't gonna save you against slayers or KD:s. Not that you would ever want to use full set on shield or dps dok, as you can go want to go 5/3 warlord/off-sov, or if you have the victorious jewel 5/4, 2/3/4 as the 4 piece vic buff is pretty good.

Here's the minmaxing tool so you can go and educate yourself on what the sets actually do: viewtopic.php?t=29557

I took a look at the sov set as the off sov was changed to what it is now. Since it cleraly removed stats for the block. Seemed easier than trying to fairly convert block and critical hit rate. Like plainly 1:1 heal set wp for str, heal crit for meele crit, tough for wp, red. armor pen. to armor pen. It's how other classes converted stats from different sets on sov (generally). Like you mention it yourself that it came with a cost. You can argue around as much as you want but you are not getting any crit onto warlord, it's 5% which is terrible.

But once again it doesn't matter. What is your actual argument for why there shouldn't be a equivalent sov set. Cause there is a remotly fitting set available that lacks some stats (even if its just a little) as everyone agrees? Not a great argument, independent how hostile you get.

So you just want dps dok/wp to have identical set to any other melee dps:s main sov? But even then the difference doesn't seem to be that big numbers wise. Yea real dps have 5-6 extra crit and 10 aa haste, but 99 melee power is quite a bit when you compare it to epic talismans 54 melee power vs 4 crit(renown seems to be 11:1 ratio so a bit better for crit than the talisman) especially as there is no crit dmg tactic. Like it's an offspec, you're already in stat disadvantage without any gear as all other melee classes have higher base stats, it's not meant to be the greatest thing ever and more like a bit of extra and dok/wp now even has 2 offsspecs so why does everything have to be the same, variety is good.

[Valfaros]

If variety is good and I agree then why not give the players the choice to do so. Adding sov for the third tree doesn't delete the warlord set.

Low crit just sucks. You get into a range where an enemy with good enough init + futile strikes almost never receives crits. Sure you can combine sets to gain some crit back but it's not really going to be great either.

I mean as mentioned this problem isn't a dok exclusive. I had the same problem with my st dps zealo (the only other class I currently play) where I'm stuck with the healer set as I need a skillpoint not in the aoe tree. Warlords set bonis are odd and also more targeted towards heal again so not really a choice either here.... Atleast with zealot you can just switch stats but you loose out on disrupt strikethrough when going for heal sov. But honestly I didn't really mind as I didn't except a gear for a build that 0.001% of the player population uses. I mean the problem here is just a balance issue the build is super fun to play. Anyways, with dps dok outright having it deleted in favor of a new creation did suck quite a bit.


Well whatever. Lots of contra for not much of a reason.

[Omegus]

Why would you introduce more sets for lower levels.

Assuming the paths designed to work best with Warlord (including the +2 mastery bonus, which tbh is one of the big selling points of Warlord/Sov gear), why would one path have Warlord + Sov offering +2 mastery/etc, while the other paths only have Sov offering +2?

I mean you mention it yourself "very slightyl higher" so how is that fair. It doesn't matter how big of a difference it is. It also means you strip the player of a whole set to play for. A big incentive to continue playing the game.

The end-game set incentive is the same for all 3 mastery paths. Players who want to spec for Dark Rites, Sacrifice or Torture all have the same number of sets with +2 mastery to grind for in the same tier of gear (the top-tier above the Invader ward). Once you have completed the Invader ward, the Dark Rites spec player "play for" Sov, the Sacrifice spec players "play for" Sov and the Torture players "play for" Warlord. You have not been deprived of a whole set to play for that the other specs have access to, as they do not have Warlord sets.

The purpose of my posts was to show some of the big gaping holes in what you are asking for and the reasons given for wanting it. You want a set with higher item level for Torture without taking into account overall set progression. Adding another post-Invader set for Torture (and all the other masteries built around Warlord) skews the access to armour sets even more. Where is the cheaper Warlord set for Dark Rites or Sacrifice players? Why does Torture - the off-spec DPS path - get a Warlord-level set and a Sov-level set but the actual healing paths on a healer do not?

Take it all into account, and be careful what you ask for as if Warlord and Sovereign become different tiers then I can see a Warlord Ward (lol) being added in the future, as just leaving Warlord as-is and adding the same set but in Sov doesn't seem like something the devs would do.

edit: and yes, I feel your pain regarding having +2 Dark Rites tied into 6% anti-disrupt on the Zealot sets. Even for healing, 6% anti-disrupt is great for landing staggers. Personally I'd prefer the Warlord and Sovereign sets to have +2 Mastery Points to allow players to better combine the gear with their specs, but then Sov was intentionally designed to not be "perfect".

[Valfaros]

Why does Torture - the off-spec DPS path - get a Warlord-level set and a Sov-level set but the actual healing paths on a healer do not?

Take it all into account, and be careful what you ask for as if Warlord and Sovereign become different tiers then I can see a Warlord Ward (lol) being added in the future, as just leaving Warlord as-is and adding the same set but in Sov doesn't seem like something the devs would do.

edit: and yes, I feel your pain regarding having +2 Dark Rites tied into 6% anti-disrupt on the Zealot sets. Even for healing, 6% anti-disrupt is great for landing staggers. Personally I'd prefer the Warlord and Sovereign sets to have +2 Mastery Points to allow players to better combine the gear with their specs, but then Sov was intentionally designed to not be "perfect".

I see the argument but this shouldn't be an issue as there are the ranked sets that should be bis anyway (actually not sure on heal dok) when you want to combine. For dps dok you'd still would go for vic+sov as you just get more value out of it than warlord. With jewels being locked in slot 4 the devs really gave you no other option if we are being honest here.

Like sets always catered to heal then off set with sov trying to cater to all playstyles. You also don't hear me complaining that sentinel only has a heal option even though the jewel would act as a great filler item. Its how the game is but not having a propper sov option is kinda sucky. The problem is devs made, because they added a third spec that requires other stats yet again hence limiting the options you have in the end.

I agree with the points being independent of skill tree would fix the zealot option however I don't think they are desinged to not be perfect but things were rather overlooked. Of course you can't have everything but ending up with the healer spec because it fits better than the dps spec is not a set being imperfect its something that was overlooked. Which I'm not blaming them for. However just adding the third tree would give more options for everyone.

[Keula]

For dps dok you'd still would go for vic+sov as you just get more value out of it than warlord. With jewels being locked in slot 4 the devs really gave you no other option if we are being honest here.

How is it better value to go 5/4 or 6/3 vic+off sov as block is useless so can't really go more than 4 off sov vs 5/4 warlord+vic as a dps dok? You really think 6 crit and 6 reduced ap(or 4% damage) is more value than 99 melee power and 9 ap?