Scenario Rework

[Scottx125]

I honestly don't see a need for any change other than the ideas the devs want to try that they speculated about in the VOD. Solo q works fine, people stop fighting if they get stomped. And you're not gonna stop them doing that. I'll be honest, if I'm in an SC getting farmed and I can't hide in the camp till we can surrender. I'm gonna leave the SC. I don't care if the PVP doesn't meet your mindset or expectations. My objective is fun, I like a close fight. A stomp on the other hand is not fun. And despite what you've said, I've been in some damn good solo q SC's.

Grouped SC's are fine too. I would just like 3 things (of which were also talked about in the dev VOD), that being a match maker rating to be added to pair you against similarly skilled people, a match maker that attempts to match 2/2/2 where possible or matches both teams the same regardless of comp (so it could be 5 tanks 1 dps if that's all that it can match), and a win/loss weight system against certain players so if you lose against a group of players you'll be less likely to be matched against them in future.

[Cyrylius]

I honestly don't see a need for any change other than the ideas the devs want to try that they speculated about in the VOD. Solo q works fine, people stop fighting if they get stomped. And you're not gonna stop them doing that. I'll be honest, if I'm in an SC getting farmed and I can't hide in the camp till we can surrender. I'm gonna leave the SC. I don't care if the PVP doesn't meet your mindset or expectations. My objective is fun, I like a close fight. A stomp on the other hand is not fun. And despite what you've said, I've been in some damn good solo q SC's.

Grouped SC's are fine too. I would just like 3 things (of which were also talked about in the dev VOD), that being a match maker rating to be added to pair you against similarly skilled people, a match maker that attempts to match 2/2/2 where possible or matches both teams the same regardless of comp (so it could be 5 tanks 1 dps if that's all that it can match), and a win/loss weight system against certain players so if you lose against a group of players you'll be less likely to be matched against them in future.

That means you agree almost entirely with the OP, not sure whether that's what you meant.

[Scottx125]

I honestly don't see a need for any change other than the ideas the devs want to try that they speculated about in the VOD. Solo q works fine, people stop fighting if they get stomped. And you're not gonna stop them doing that. I'll be honest, if I'm in an SC getting farmed and I can't hide in the camp till we can surrender. I'm gonna leave the SC. I don't care if the PVP doesn't meet your mindset or expectations. My objective is fun, I like a close fight. A stomp on the other hand is not fun. And despite what you've said, I've been in some damn good solo q SC's.

Grouped SC's are fine too. I would just like 3 things (of which were also talked about in the dev VOD), that being a match maker rating to be added to pair you against similarly skilled people, a match maker that attempts to match 2/2/2 where possible or matches both teams the same regardless of comp (so it could be 5 tanks 1 dps if that's all that it can match), and a win/loss weight system against certain players so if you lose against a group of players you'll be less likely to be matched against them in future.

That means you agree almost entirely with the OP, not sure whether that's what you meant.

Gravlord wants Solo q's removed and everyone thrown into a batch. I would have both discordant and normal pre-made kept. I also don't support boarding up spawns to stop people running. The whole reason for the barriers was to stop the enemy getting into your spawn, not the other way around. His idea is well throw everyone into the mix, match the groups and run the SC. And he thinks throwing solo q's and premade will make people "Think more PVP orientated". I'll tell you this now, if you put solo q's and premades together and a group of solo's get a premade against them, they go out once, fight and then sit in spawn and wait for a surrender vote. Either that or they'll play the PVE game.

If it makes my stance clear, I don't agree with points 6, 4 and 3.

[Evilspinnre]

1. Matchmaking - similar to how it already works in ranked games. System will attempt to create equally balanced group setups for both factions, 2/2/2 parties if possible, 3/2/1 and eventually 4/1/1 as the final resort if balanced archetype setup cannot be achieved, the 4 being overload of dps classes ofc. System will withhold port to scenario untill enough tanks and healers on both sides confirms joining.

2. Remove option to choose scenarios - i know this one will be contentious to many, but its a necessary sacrifice to be able to add actual matchmaking. With option for players to q into 5-7 different sc at the same time getting enough players of correct archetypes to create working matchmaking wont be possible. Thats the reason previous attempt to add tank and healer requirement to sc tested few years ago failed.

3. Add barriers to all scenarios - unreasonable safety net of running back to warcamp causes bad mentality effect on the playerbase of always playing with less commitment than they could, always one leg turned towards warcamp ready to run to preserve precious kd while not maximum effort into actual fight. Real kiting skills were replaced with flee to warcamp and getting npcs to resolve supposed pvp combat while players underperform. That should have no place in pvp game mode ever. Players stepping into scenario should put their full effort into playing best to their abilities for their team to win, not look out for opportunity to run back and give a wc guard a warm hug.
Additionally, players leaving warcamp could receive 10s Immaculate Defence effect, to allow them rejoin fight without being instantly killed if winning side is camping them.
Players overstaying in wc safety behind the barrier receive warning after 1 min to get out and fight. After 90s total in spawn they get booted out with quitter.

4. Remove discordant scenario - with how its currently abused by premades stacks sneaking up in as bunch of duos with timed q it no longer serves its purpose and with functioning matchmaking it doesnt have any reason to exist anymore either. Standard balanced scenarios for all will suffice.

5. Replace weekly weekend event specific sc with just general play X sc, kill X players in sc, etc. Theres no point to go tru 10-20 or more same sc spam fatigue for the weekend event.
If there is ongoing bigger event specifically demanding certain scenario to be played it can have increased pop chance in the system, to 25% or 50% pop chance anytime new sc pop happens.

6. Delay surrender vote option - current 4 mins of ongoing sc is way too premature and with functioning matchmaking that option should rarely ever be needed. 7 or more mins into sc would be more appropriate to determine if it truly was so one sided and give players time to give it a fair try.

1. Match making was tried, pops took 45 mins. Make it each side needs at least 1 heal and 1 tank in each party.

2. No. Quite a few maps are horrible and should be blacklisted, especially those that prioritise PvE over PvP.

3. No

4. Discordant some of the best fun in scs atm, especially when you don't want to deal with premades and just solo q. This "stacking" was from people crying during NA when friends would queue all scs and only discordant would pop so they'd end up in the same one.

5. Nah weekly event is fun, just add another one for weekday.

6. Nope, some sc's are decided before first fight. If it's 12 pugs vs premade (premade shouldn't be losing) then there is a problem).

[rejndjer]

poor premades almost 10 pages of crying in less than 3 days. nice. must mean you lack cannon fodder to farm in your profesional scenarios? hahaha

how about trying to play an actual competitive online game? xD

[malmar]

Solution for SC problem is very easy - increase playerbase. And only way to do that is to make it more pug friendly. More people playing the game = more people to try and compete in ranked. You keep forcing hard core playstyle on people and it's not working - people don't have fun playing that way and then they quit.

[Phantasm]

Any idea is welcomed to improve current state of scs. No more pugs vs premades only. And maybe finally we will see added scenario UI with info of archetypes queueing so we wont waste time with quing solo among other 20 dps, instead log healer or tank.

System will withhold port to scenario untill enough tanks and healers on both sides confirms joining.

Dalen, why we cant have that implemented with current system? Why must enter scenarios with full dps or tank/dps composition.

[Everdin]

Remove solo que, remove the possibility to que with 2,3,4 or 5 people.

Only way to que for SC is if you have a 2/2/2 Setup <- fix all the problems, all the good players that only loose because of premades are against them alone would be in a team and destroying all the legacy group-scum that only wins because the enemy side is pug.

It would be the raise of the lost ones, pre-patch-premades would flee and then we can bring back solo que to enjoy ourself without the fear of beeing forced to play together to win a game!

[Rubius]

Thank you for putting together this proposal. Wanted to share my personal thoughts on Guards vs Barriers specifically, and a little insight into the direction we've been moving towards with recent patches.

Personally, I think guards are great in the majority of cases! The game teaches you from the very beginning that pushing an enemy camp = your death. This lesson holds true from RvR to Fortresses to Chapter camps and into most Scenarios.

But Guards aren't always the answer. In some cases, especially for SC maps that are tiny, we've replaced guards with barriers, or reduced guards slightly, to open up more of the map for fighting. (Reikland Factory, Sacellum Arena are good examples for this.) We're also exploring alternatives that help counteract any downsides for these maps.

Guards offer a counter-play mechanic that punishes the winning team for getting too greedy. Push too hard and your frontline might wipe, and if that happens, the losing team might have a chance to push and recover points.

Many people in this thread already pointed this out, but if you're spawn camping an enemy team, it means you already control the map, which means you've likely won the scenario. All you're doing at this point is farming kills for more renown - which is fine, but the losing team has no obligation to waltz into your arms and feed you.

The smarter play would be to leave their spawn and let them come fight you at objectives - giving your enemies a better shot at fighting back, and giving you a better shot at killing them all again. It's win-win.

At the end of the day, Scenarios are about playing the objective, not about seal clubbing players at their spawn.

Just my two cents!

[lemao]

poor premades almost 10 pages of crying in less than 3 days. nice. must mean you lack cannon fodder to farm in your profesional scenarios? hahaha

how about trying to play an actual competitive online game? xD

Playing with 5 other friends means playing "professional" these days ?
Im sorry to you that some people enjoy to play MMOS with other people instead of playing alone all day.