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Phantasm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:00 pm
I tried myself reproducing what OP describe. As you can see on video its total nonsense, puts you and your group in a position you don't want to be, gives no advantages after first execution. Kaboom is a very situational skill, it doesnt matter its CD is 5s or 50s, you dont want to use it more then once and only in special places like bridges or edges.
Maybe read all posts, I was specifying that it's biggest use with that short cd is in forts with inner still up. Also, you literally jump a mob a couple times which doesn't even get the kb but a kd instead, and say it's nonsense, nice job.
Someone give me an account with a R40 RR1 naked msh and I show you how punts can be used properly in the next fort destro attacks.
It has one regular use and that is to punish people out of position like on keeps or bridges and mb you save a group by exploding here and there. The SW jump comparison kinda sucks cause MSH is already dead in the air if goes for a second jump and at least 3 people pay attention.
Phantasm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:00 pm
I tried myself reproducing what OP describe. As you can see on video its total nonsense, puts you and your group in a position you don't want to be, gives no advantages after first execution. Kaboom is a very situational skill, it doesnt matter its CD is 5s or 50s, you dont want to use it more then once and only in special places like bridges or edges.
Maybe read all posts, I was specifying that it's biggest use with that short cd is in forts with inner still up. Also, you literally jump a mob a couple times which doesn't even get the kb but a kd instead, and say it's nonsense, nice job.
Someone give me an account with a R40 RR1 naked msh and I show you how punts can be used properly in the next fort destro attacks.
Your response clearly shows you lack some knowledge. Knockbacks in pve (on mobs) are registered as knockdowns - you cant punt NPCs. I showed a patern you describe and I showed you how it perform. You know why its silly?
Squig has no root break
Squig has ST 100ft detaunt
Out of squig armor SH got 1800 armor in BIS gear, besically paper doll.
After one pounce, one kaboom and one selfpunt it has no more escape tools.
Even if squig pounce on walls, punt few BWs on edge of fort wall they spawn inside fort
If squig dies on wall must run back 1 min+ to own group, which probably is already at inner walls.
Remember noone can pounce on KEEP walls, only FORTS. Keeps arent forts, im sure you know difference.
If you already on inner FORT walls it means you wanna defend and pouncing/kabooming do nothing for pushes and defs of doors.
Phantasm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 2:00 pm
I tried myself reproducing what OP describe. As you can see on video its total nonsense, puts you and your group in a position you don't want to be, gives no advantages after first execution. Kaboom is a very situational skill, it doesnt matter its CD is 5s or 50s, you dont want to use it more then once and only in special places like bridges or edges.
Maybe read all posts, I was specifying that it's biggest use with that short cd is in forts with inner still up. Also, you literally jump a mob a couple times which doesn't even get the kb but a kd instead, and say it's nonsense, nice job.
Someone give me an account with a R40 RR1 naked msh and I show you how punts can be used properly in the next fort destro attacks.
Your response clearly shows you lack some knowledge. Knockbacks in pve (on mobs) are registered as knockdowns - you cant punt NPCs. I showed a patern you describe and I showed you how it perform. You know why its silly?
Squig has no root break
Squig has ST 100ft detaunt
Out of squig armor SH got 1800 armor in BIS gear, besically paper doll.
After one pounce, one kaboom and one selfpunt it has no more escape tools.
Even if squig pounce on walls, punt few BWs on edge of fort wall they spawn inside fort
If squig dies on wall must run back 1 min+ to own group, which probably is already at inner walls.
Remember noone can pounce on KEEP walls, only FORTS. Keeps arent forts, im sure you know difference.
If you already on inner FORT walls it means you wanna defend and pouncing/kabooming do nothing for pushes and defs of doors.
And no single arguments that you brought up explains why the punt ability itself has to have 5s CD.
1800 armor, so same amount that SW, BW, Sorc has or even Choppa or Slayer in red...
ST detaunt, guess just like all other range dps...
The biggest advantage that MSH has is that it has access to FocusMind and Pounce at same time, so he can perform the pounce into aoe punt with almost 100% success and even go back to SquigArmor during FM. And FM is much more powerful than any melee dps root break...
Again, the ability itself should still remain on MSH, should its power be nerfed, idk probably not, but the CD of it should def be increased.
As i said CD doesnt matter, i dont care if its 5s, 30s, 5 mins. I addressed reasoning behind nerf (which it isnt - doesnt change how combo is applied) because i play called class and wanted show how it performs. If you ask me where is issue - a pounce on walls itself restricted to only few classes. If it suppose to be a some kind of strategy - well we have catapults already. Remove possibility to pounce on FORT walls and keep catapults.
Xergon wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 3:38 pm
And no single arguments that you brought up explains why the punt ability itself has to have 5s CD.
Again, the ability itself should still remain on MSH, should its power be nerfed, idk probably not, but the CD of it should def be increased.
The reason for it being 5s is because its supposed to be your escape button when you are in squig armor, the problem is that it can be used in ways that cause the backlash from not being in armor to be nonexistant while allowing for another cast of it when enemy comes back. Thus it needs some sort of managing it, or lack of it, the question is if those situations are special to his punt or not, if they are then nerf is needed, if its not only his thing and other characters can pull the same abuse then there might be some field to leverage not changing it. In my opinion i think that the CD should be increased atleast by 5s (5s longer than squig armor CD) but not more than 15s (for total of 20s) and/or the punt mechanic to be changed to the shamans aoe punt mechanic (20feet + 20% slow, i think it would let more room for self peel when doing 1vX as melee squig while still nerfing the large scale potential of it). But there is still question if the changes are needed or they are such outlier that they dont matter for 99% of the time.
Absinth wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:07 pm
The reason for it being 5s is because its supposed to be your escape button when you are in squig armor
Can you not reuse squig armor to leave it? That was my assumption, it should probably be changed too. I guess you can probably remove the squig armor buff but nobody wants to deal with that when buffs and debuffs are applying and expiring in combat.
The cooldown doesnt make sense if its 10seconds, as in 99% of the cases the ability is getting used you dont actually need the ability every ten seconds.
Immunity keeps the ability in place.
The main and only issue with KaBoom! being 10seconds are those rare cases where you can find a rock or a stone and pounce up on keep walls or Fortress walls, and aoe punt a fully stacked tower so the defences go flying down on the ground to be nomnomed like fishfood. This is however an exploit and unintented gameplay, and you can get banned for being a WL, SM, MSH pouncing up and doing punts. Same reason Shadowstep was nerfed so ASW cant SS up on oil to melee it.
Those of us who mained or played MSH a year ago knew about the spots on South KV keep, Praag south keep etc. where you had enough range and could pounce up and do kabooms. But didnt use these spots because its not intented and Dalen even said on Gravord streams that these are exploits.
Increasing the cooldown wouldnt hurt normal MSH gameplay, just increase it to 30sec to match the immunity and its fine really.
However making it so SM, MSH cant pounce on walls would solve this issue even better.
#Edit: And yes you can leave Squigarmor by pressing the Stance again and go into Goblin Bow-form
Absinth wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2023 4:07 pm
The reason for it being 5s is because its supposed to be your escape button when you are in squig armor
Can you not reuse squig armor to leave it? That was my assumption, it should probably be changed too. I guess you can probably remove the squig armor buff but nobody wants to deal with that when buffs and debuffs are applying and expiring in combat.
Escape as in "oh frick im getting targeted by a wh and i need to self peel myself away from him soo that i can start kiting them because i will loose 1v1 in melee range"
