Black Ork Adjustment

[IVendettaI]

Why some people are haters of You Wot?! Hahahaha

The spell give block. Understand this and you will know why SNB BO is really good

"The worst tank ever" no, really not

[normanis]

big swing is very good. no need it change. sm dont have such possibility reduce destro str by x . u use it also for war below triger. similar to sm byt sm has spirit debuff (only good for very few classes) while str debuff work for any melle class. u have 1050 str after u get hited by big swing u have 970str. tanks has 150 str (aproximely) so yes dont touch big swing its already good.(chosen dont need run str aura)

[normanis]

Why some people are haters of You Wot?! Hahahaha

The spell give block. Understand this and you will know why SNB BO is really good

"The worst tank ever" no, really not

i dont think black orc is worst tank/weakest or something . its more like steroetipes because he is orc its means stupid with big 2h weapon and need deal shitons of damage. in mmorpg u have synergy with ather classes , its not skyrim where u play solo.
previous was said corp debuff = melle train damage increase (not u byt athers)
big swing - str debuff + with tactic build times
war bellows trigers randomly (stat steal) also party wound buff good stuff
m3 aoe silence
not in da face - good for target rotation debuff
only thing what black orc lack is st knockback
black orc share same mechaniks as sm byt has also iron breaker buffs(some)
so just asking why ib can acces to armor/tough buff in 2h while black orc cant?(tuffer n nails vs guarded attack) also ib has damage increase because of grudges.
i am not pro player byt some tweaks for black orc can be added.

[Sinisterror]

Give "Right Back 'Atcha" in place of You Wot?! Because if Blorcs dont have You Wot?! then even 2h blorc becomes useless. Snb Thc should be brought back along with 240ws buff from old no choppin' me tactic.

As SM i can say that this sounds reasonable...until i remember that BOrk already have 1 unique def channeling (can't hit me) and actually useful racial tactics instead of spit in the face SM has.

Well, the part about racial tactics is more like personal grumbling, but i do think that having an upgraded hold the line both for 2h and 1h is a bit too much.

You are completely correct that its too much to have cant hit me! along with Right back Atcha'! Maybe easiest would be to remove You wot!? and THC takes its place in the tree, and replace THC with Not in da face! and add 4 sec Full Party immunity to CC in Not In da Face like it used to have wayyyyback. And obviously Thc usable with shield!

I love Sm myself and man i miss the old Phantom Blade that had 25% chance to on hit 330 absorb shield<3 And yeah Racial Tactics have... well what to say even : D So huge differences. But nowadays when 2h gives 10% parryblock strikethru because WP was the only one who "for some reason" had 10% Parry Strikethru with 2h. Well the reason is obviously that he is Melee Healer : D So now that ALL have that extra 10% parry Strikethru Discerning Offense is imo only Racial that has its place, and can be powerful.

Edit; Personally i wouldnt say that Grudges give IB dmg. Nope NEEDS 100 grudge for full dmg and needs to slot 1 tactic to get grudges when hitting enemy. Reason why it works like this compared to BG is because originally BG didnt get Hate when "Oathfriend" takes dmg. People cried on the forums alot, and it was changed. So reason why IB needs to slot tactic to gain grudge on hit is an oversight from 15yrs ago=)

[Sinisterror]

big swing is very good. no need it change. sm dont have such possibility reduce destro str by x . u use it also for war below triger. similar to sm byt sm has spirit debuff (only good for very few classes) while str debuff work for any melle class. u have 1050 str after u get hited by big swing u have 970str. tanks has 150 str (aproximely) so yes dont touch big swing its already good.(chosen dont need run str aura)

I play both Sm/Blorc and if you are saying aoe str debuff is better than 20 sec aoe spirit debuff, that is an interesting opinion to say the least : D Doesnt matter what class im playing if i get the option to aoe debuff Spirit resis or str i will always pick the spirit resis debuff.

[normanis]

big swing is very good. no need it change. sm dont have such possibility reduce destro str by x . u use it also for war below triger. similar to sm byt sm has spirit debuff (only good for very few classes) while str debuff work for any melle class. u have 1050 str after u get hited by big swing u have 970str. tanks has 150 str (aproximely) so yes dont touch big swing its already good.(chosen dont need run str aura)

I play both Sm/Blorc and if you are saying aoe str debuff is better than 20 sec aoe spirit debuff, that is an interesting opinion to say the least : D Doesnt matter what class im playing if i get the option to aoe debuff Spirit resis or str i will always pick the spirit resis debuff.

how many clases need spirit debuff on target from order dps. offc arcmage i am sure has big profit from spirit debuff. (its would be big profit if all elfs deal spirit damage (some abilities more than they have now) lions fury hit harder . or tth deal spirit damage) .
str debuff works against melle trains. not all are 1050 main stat.
tank with low str mostly has their cc absorbed by zealot absorb shield tactic. or parried/blocked

[Sinisterror]

big swing is very good. no need it change. sm dont have such possibility reduce destro str by x . u use it also for war below triger. similar to sm byt sm has spirit debuff (only good for very few classes) while str debuff work for any melle class. u have 1050 str after u get hited by big swing u have 970str. tanks has 150 str (aproximely) so yes dont touch big swing its already good.(chosen dont need run str aura)

I play both Sm/Blorc and if you are saying aoe str debuff is better than 20 sec aoe spirit debuff, that is an interesting opinion to say the least : D Doesnt matter what class im playing if i get the option to aoe debuff Spirit resis or str i will always pick the spirit resis debuff.

how many clases need spirit debuff on target from order dps. offc arcmage i am sure has big profit from spirit debuff. (its would be big profit if all elfs deal spirit damage (some abilities more than they have now) lions fury hit harder . or tth deal spirit damage) .
str debuff works against melle trains. not all are 1050 main stat.
tank with low str mostly has their cc absorbed by zealot absorb shield tactic. or parried/blocked

Wp Wrath prayer is spirit dmg, Guilty soul, Soulfire,Divine Strike and Divine assault as well. WH Bullets are Spirit dmg, Fervor as well. And Everything Am/Sm does is spirit dmg and these are just what i remember on the spot, im sure there is more. But this is just my opinion=)

[Avernus]

1. You are completely correct that its too much to have cant hit me! along with Right back Atcha'! Maybe easiest would be to remove You wot!? and THC takes its place in the tree, and replace THC with Not in da face! and add 4 sec Full Party immunity to CC in Not In da Face like it used to have wayyyyback. And obviously Thc usable with shield!

2. I love Sm myself and man i miss the old Phantom Blade that had 25% chance to on hit 330 absorb shield<3 And yeah Racial Tactics have... well what to say even : D So huge differences. But nowadays when 2h gives 10% parryblock strikethru because WP was the only one who "for some reason" had 10% Parry Strikethru with 2h. Well the reason is obviously that he is Melee Healer : D So now that ALL have that extra 10% parry Strikethru Discerning Offense is imo only Racial that has its place, and can be powerful.

3. Edit; Personally i wouldnt say that Grudges give IB dmg. Nope NEEDS 100 grudge for full dmg and needs to slot 1 tactic to get grudges when hitting enemy. Reason why it works like this compared to BG is because originally BG didnt get Hate when "Oathfriend" takes dmg. People cried on the forums alot, and it was changed. So reason why IB needs to slot tactic to gain grudge on hit is an oversight from 15yrs ago=)

1. You mean that Not in da face will be CC immunity instead of cooldowns, right? Kinda okay, but feels off being placed in offence tree. And you can't use Ether Dance without 2h so...

2. I'm not sure that those 10% can matter unless you are fighting fellow tanks/def mdps while roaming. When you try to assist something, its usually not that hard to attack your target from behind, and in case of healer killing its usually irrelevant. Unlike +25% to crit damage.

3. At some point, there was no oathfriend for BG at all. And no armor debuff. Well, as a former BG player, i think that BG is almost perfect as a tank now, you have a clear builds for sc, orvr and roam without any particular weakness (because you do have 2h knockdown and armor debuff now).

[Avernus]

And Everything Sm does is spirit dmg

*Almost everything. Sadly, parry buff and snare both deal physical damage. (and gryphon lash too, but this thing dealing spirit damage would be OP)

[normanis]

I play both Sm/Blorc and if you are saying aoe str debuff is better than 20 sec aoe spirit debuff, that is an interesting opinion to say the least : D Doesnt matter what class im playing if i get the option to aoe debuff Spirit resis or str i will always pick the spirit resis debuff.

how many clases need spirit debuff on target from order dps. offc arcmage i am sure has big profit from spirit debuff. (its would be big profit if all elfs deal spirit damage (some abilities more than they have now) lions fury hit harder . or tth deal spirit damage) .
str debuff works against melle trains. not all are 1050 main stat.
tank with low str mostly has their cc absorbed by zealot absorb shield tactic. or parried/blocked

Wp Wrath prayer is spirit dmg, Guilty soul, Soulfire,Divine Strike and Divine assault as well. WH Bullets are Spirit dmg, Fervor as well. And Everything Am/Sm does is spirit dmg and these are just what i remember on the spot, im sure there is more. But this is just my opinion=)

its good all what u said. some of tham its good synergy with duo with 2h sm. or 6men.
sad only phoenix wing dont debuff str . like its sm answer to waaaagh.
back to topic black orc lack only st punt similar to snb sm. and maby minor few tweaks on abilities (same goes to sm phoenix wing for example)