Regarding Magus and Engineer changes

[nailinthehead]

My list of changes to the Engineer I'd like to see before any radical changes:
- make turret deployment instant
- redeployment with no cooldown
- remove long cast animations - almost each damaging ability has damn long animations stacking with cast times. Even insta abilities are not instant because of that
- make magnet instant
- make armor piercing rounds an enchantment like Flack Jacket, and allow only one of them to be active
- remove static discharge cooldown

[Skullgrin]

My list of changes to the Engineer I'd like to see before any radical changes:
- make turret deployment instant
- redeployment with no cooldown
- remove long cast animations - almost each damaging ability has damn long animations stacking with cast times. Even insta abilities are not instant because of that
- make magnet instant
- make armor piercing rounds an enchantment like Flack Jacket, and allow only one of them to be active
- remove static discharge cooldown

I too would like to have all cooldowns and casting times removed from any characters that I choose to play, there is absolutely NOTHING unbalancing about that...

[nailinthehead]

I too would like to have all cooldowns and casting times removed from any characters that I choose to play, there is absolutely NOTHING unbalancing about that...

Where did I write about all cooldowns? As far I see, I wrote about removing casting times from 3 skills, out of which just one damaging (omg game braking static discharge dealing 300 dmg with 1200 BS). I think my proposals mean no damage output increase, just more mobility, and casting times equal with skill descriptions (because animations double or triple them for almost all grenadier and tinkerer skills). The only real dmg increase would come from the piercing rounds but at the cost of survivability, and still it'd just limit the number of sniping dwarfs needed to kill a single target in a WB setup from 12 to maybe 8.

We are talking about a dps class which can't move efficently + having hard time dealing any dmg because:
a) you have to wait for turret upgrades
b) you are already out of range of the turret when moving
c) you have to waste a tactic to play in RVR at all, while wasting GCD for that every couple of seconds
d) basically no burst

So no, I don't think my proposal would unbalance the game, just make the engi play less annoing. But rampage, I know...

[bw10]

I too would like to have all cooldowns and casting times removed from any characters that I choose to play, there is absolutely NOTHING unbalancing about that...

Where did I write about all cooldowns? As far I see, I wrote about removing casting times from 3 skills, out of which just one damaging (omg game braking static discharge dealing 300 dmg with 1200 BS). I think my proposals mean no damage output increase, just more mobility, and casting times equal with skill descriptions (because animations double or triple them for almost all grenadier and tinkerer skills). The only real dmg increase would come from the piercing rounds but at the cost of survivability, and still it'd just limit the number of sniping dwarfs needed to kill a single target in a WB setup from 12 to maybe 8.

We are talking about a dps class which can't move efficently + having hard time dealing any dmg because:
a) you have to wait for turret upgrades
b) you are already out of range of the turret when moving
c) you have to waste a tactic to play in RVR at all, while wasting GCD for that every couple of seconds
d) basically no burst

So no, I don't think my proposal would unbalance the game, just make the engi play less annoing. But rampage, I know...

either that or redesign turrets into stances. devs are obviously not okay with the original fantasy of engi/magus being the entrenched piece of artillery doing monster damage, at the cost of immobility.

[Nameless]

Again before live war end devs was making plans to make turrents/demons providing unique groups based buff for the whole party. Is there any reliable info from last days about their exact plans (at that time they mention thevidea about friendly leap for bo and sm)

[DKSkulL]

Its always funny for me when someone is calling for balance when comparing classes in 1 vs 1 environment. Can you name a single magus that regularly is a member of organized Warbands or 6 mans (not /5 groups)? Its stationary nature outweighs any benefits of having one in a group.

Engie and magus are still have 1 specific role for warband - pullbot. For obvious reasons, while magnet engies are good for large-scale combat (its not like order have a choice anyway), there is no reason to pick magus riftbot.

Did you play on it? no?
On 24 target meta now pulling 4 man with CD 30 sec, wow, that so specific role
You need to stay on place for cast, your blue demon not increasing range of rift pull
And rift are not dealing any damage

[Avernus]

Its always funny for me when someone is calling for balance when comparing classes in 1 vs 1 environment. Can you name a single magus that regularly is a member of organized Warbands or 6 mans (not /5 groups)? Its stationary nature outweighs any benefits of having one in a group.

Engie and magus are still have 1 specific role for warband - pullbot. For obvious reasons, while magnet engies are good for large-scale combat (its not like order have a choice anyway), there is no reason to pick magus riftbot.

Did you play on it? no?
On 24 target meta now pulling 4 man with CD 30 sec, wow, that so specific role
You need to stay on place for cast, your blue demon not increasing range of rift pull
And rift are not dealing any damage

Thats why i specified that while engie pullbot is somewhat okay (there is nothing better for order), magus pullbot is NOT okay. To be precise, magus pullbot is a complete joke compared to gtdc pull/aoe faceroll.

[paperclipdog]

Magus:

SOLO:
Magus 1v1 capabilities are barely getting touched with this patch and we have devs on record saying they don't give a **** about solo play. They are good solo though, no question about it. Perfectly played kite magus only loses 1v1 to DPS AMs. (You can also get killed in the opening KD by full dmg WHs if you don't have BIS gear yet.)
Solo in general is quite broken though. Most people that can't beat you can always just run away from you.

___
AOE:
Magus aoe is bad for bomb warbands because pet-[mist]-dot-dot-dot-lash is an insanely long rotation. Without pet+dots your damage isn't competetive. Fights dont last that long. They are also too immobile for orvr fights.
What is getting nerfed? Mobility.

Magus aoe is good for city and funnels, where (guess what) you can even make due with the blue horror and even fights are usually long as ****. The nerfs won't affect this much.

___
ST:
Magus ST is trash for group play outside of insanely long ranked fights where you can play dot spec with a rotation that's even longer than your aoe one (pet-[mist]-dot-dot-dot-dot-dot-[dot]-cast-cast, yeah, count those seconds please).
Anyone who played magus alongside other DPS, especially ranged DPS, should know this. Even if you put pets on follow and had perma +20%, they would still be sub-par here because of the slow ST rotation. Even the standard Havoc one is slow and you only have one "fast" combo of a 2s cast into a channel for quick burst, both of which have too long cooldowns for this kind of gameplay and require you to remain stationary.
The only viable "quick" dmg combo is getting nerfed.
For ST group play outside of ranked, the 20% range nerf also matters. At least in theory you might sometimes be able to compensate for slow rotations and lack of mobility by not having to move as much due to extended range. In practice this rarely helps.


___

Engi: lol

____

Two weeks untill the "proper" balance patch fixes three years of nerfs is also a nice made up number btw.

[Sinisterror]

Magus:

SOLO:
Magus 1v1 capabilities are barely getting touched with this patch and we have devs on record saying they don't give a **** about solo play. They are good solo though, no question about it. Perfectly played kite magus only loses 1v1 to DPS AMs. (You can also get killed in the opening KD by full dmg WHs if you don't have BIS gear yet.)
Solo in general is quite broken though. Most people that can't beat you can always just run away from you.

___
AOE:
Magus aoe is bad for bomb warbands because pet-[mist]-dot-dot-dot-lash is an insanely long rotation. Without pet+dots your damage isn't competetive. Fights dont last that long. They are also too immobile for orvr fights.
What is getting nerfed? Mobility.

Magus aoe is good for city and funnels, where (guess what) you can even make due with the blue horror and even fights are usually long as ****. The nerfs won't affect this much.

___
ST:
Magus ST is trash for group play outside of insanely long ranked fights where you can play dot spec with a rotation that's even longer than your aoe one (pet-[mist]-dot-dot-dot-dot-dot-[dot]-cast-cast, yeah, count those seconds please).
Anyone who played magus alongside other DPS, especially ranged DPS, should know this. Even if you put pets on follow and had perma +20%, they would still be sub-par here because of the slow ST rotation. Even the standard Havoc one is slow and you only have one "fast" combo of a 2s cast into a channel for quick burst, both of which have too long cooldowns for this kind of gameplay and require you to remain stationary.
The only viable "quick" dmg combo is getting nerfed.
For ST group play outside of ranked, the 20% range nerf also matters. At least in theory you might sometimes be able to compensate for slow rotations and lack of mobility by not having to move as much due to extended range. In practice this rarely helps.


___

Engi: lol

____

Two weeks untill the "proper" balance patch fixes three years of nerfs is also a nice made up number btw.

Engi/Magus got the 20% dmg from Pets in Live as well so its interesting they are removing it, BUT im not reading too much into the "patch notes" because they are going to change alot once Testserver is available and we can actually test the changes.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130510122 ... /index.php I dont remember which patch gave engi/magus 20%+ dmg boost from pets. Imo what Aza did with pets having real differences was great and i doubt they will be completely removed.

Imo Magus with full vanquisher proc + 05s cast time reduction proc from wpn does huge burst, espesially if Close Quarters is slotted and you have guard with good heals. Im a bit worried they are not going to reduce the aoe cap back to 9:E It should max be 12 for ranged dps and for melee's 6-9. If aoe cap is 12 and Magus/Engi gets their old magnet/rift back (Which they should get) that was pulling people 75ft ANY direction and that means no Safespaces in forts/keeps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5Zw4FUPacc This show's the old version, both realms should have access to this, and change gtdc to Id like ability so Pulls are more equal, and then Rampage not ignoring guard mechanic or morale avoidances. Aoe HD's back to 50%. Though 30% is better than nothing, but it should be 50% and DoK should get his ae HD back. And Make WP have it as well, and remove shields from wp/dok.