Is reward model driving current population inbalance

[juzziex]

Are you telling me you would rather play a game where one side hides for 30 mins before there is any action? If all order can do is funnel then there is so many places in most zones where you can do it - watch a NM/TUP video or any of the good wbs and see. They will fix choppa pulls at the same time they fix rampage/id which is never so might as well come out and fight.

Keeps are a handicap for the outnumbered/outgeared/out organised side. Without it people would simply just log off on the losing side which is already a huge problem even with keeps but would be even worse without them.

Without a handicap we will get situations like city and lotd where the losing side quickly vanishes into nothing.

[Garamore]

Or order organises better, stops playing so much range, joins and supports the bigger guilds, plays more tanks, half the realm don't hide in a keep and you may get better results.

And that still won't stop the bulls*** pulls and AOE KD.
So obvious what you are going to do when you charge in Gara, yet not a lot to stop it

Healer will heal, tank will move towards me, ill pop an absorb pot, maybe my m1, take a heal pot or two and yeah from time to time ill die but at least its a fight.

From all this qq on the board it looks like primetime order morale is at rock bottom.

[normanis]

Or order organises better, stops playing so much range, joins and supports the bigger guilds, plays more tanks, half the realm don't hide in a keep and you may get better results.

And that still won't stop the bulls*** pulls and AOE KD.
So obvious what you are going to do when you charge in Gara, yet not a lot to stop it

Healer will heal, tank will move towards me, ill pop an absorb pot, maybe my m1, take a heal pot or two and yeah from time to time ill die but at least its a fight.

From all this qq on the board it looks like primetime order morale is at rock bottom.

should i remind u how u left city siege after u counter nightmare? somwhere was video on forum. and u are mocking order for not taking your fights where they cant atleast give proper fight. u have short memory.

[Garamore]

Yep we left like many before and many will in the future. That's down to other reasons that aren't allowed to be discussed on the forum. We have never left RvR even when outnumbered and fight even with 80% + aao.

Lets stick on the topic of the reward model driving order behaviour that's making rvr very dull

[normanis]

Yep we left like many before and many will in the future. That's down to other reasons that aren't allowed to be discussed on the forum. We have never left RvR even when outnumbered and fight even with 80% + aao.

Lets stick on the topic of the reward model driving order behaviour that's making rvr very dull

it is sticking 100% to topic.
order cant take open fights, they defend wc or keep. many ppl before me already explained.
byt seems u think diferent. when u cant defeat someone u left it. byt when u face weaker than u , and they leave wc/keep loog out , than u are angry. and come here to spread out topiks how bad is keeps and bad is order. its basicly same. . ppl dodge parts of game if they cant beat oponent or atleast give fight. yes we loose byt atleast we also get kills and fun.
and city sieges are badly designed as endgame.

[Acidic]

its understandable whysuch post is opened. order new tactic is hide in keep when ganked by pullbots. where magnet sucks. so opening thread about , how bed is hide in keeps because i cant u pull. its troll thread, for biting. veery bad balance than we have now.
why hand of blood even left t1? if they whant only t1 style fights?
t2/3/4 that why has keeps. if game would be designed around wow shity batlegrounds than why bother even with making keep sistem in warhammer? why game developers even bothered with diferent pvp stile than it is already in wow? isnt that why we love warhammer with diferent pvp stile?
p,s personaly i love warhammer because of diferences not because of coppy paste of wow. byt some ppl whant evrything like in ather games just diference orcs here is fungus : lol :

This is an RvR game not a hide in a keep game. I could go hide in a wardrobe in my house if I wanted to but id rather do something more exciting. Been on order a little bit recently and so sad to see the constant t4 messages telling people to give up and hide. As Finbarr said this game is good when there's reasonable balance between sides. If half of one faction are hiding then we will never get there. Taking bags away from a keep defense takes away the incentive to afk till one occurs. By all means triple the rewards for actual fights to make up for it.

so this is excuse to not siege, byt come and tell on forum why there is so many invitebla city sieges than aldorf? maby because u all are too bisy wc camp?
give coockies also to order miror clases i would also spam gtdc nonstop with 10sec cd (acording to forum)
so basicly if order refuse play your t1 game wc camping u come here on forum and make threads how keep sieges are bad. and why ranged biased order are hiding in keep??? maby because of bugged pulls and mindless zerg? gives us also bugged pulls. why only 1 side has upper hand in keep and ather dont have. this is unaceptable.
even your sistem will be approved, what does its mean. constant wc camping. (like now is diferent), u build like in t1 points toward 100% and zone is locked. go next zone and camp wc nonstop. than another. no mater is it destro or order they will do it.
i reaveal my plan how should look like pvp with keeps
in first i whant to say previous keep lord sutem was nice (control objects, lord deal more damage)
0 rank - no bonuses . just keep defences no oil no engine no respawn
1rank- oil, spawn in keep no ather bonuses like engineering canons/rams
2rank - oil/spawn/all engineering (limited)
3rank - all previous bonuses + more munnition to canons . no pasdoor using as attacker
4/5 - all previous bonuses + godlike lord
so basicly enemy will try stop u from ranking keep, to make it easer for tham. here comes all open field fights. batle objectives controls, more obejctives u control fatter tick of boxes and stronger ranking keep. like 1 obj- no xpierence to rank keep. 2 objects - 100/ 3 - 150 and 4 give - 400 per box
attacking side for taking x rank keep take better rr and bags than taking 0 star.
gold start drop after 2 stars.
0 - star white
1star -blue
and so on.
atleast its my point of view.
atmoment its not like that its 1 sided, or lotd clones. and we all know who win in lotd fights. order dont have keeps there just wc.

The thread is about rewards influence on player behavior. Kind of what the title says.
Balance of game find another thread please.
The part regardsing why destro city is permanatly sigeded is in scope as that is diown to order group being rewarded for doing pve and rewarded with pvp rewards

Also good you have ideas for the campaign but also another thread.

It should be obvious that some do not enjoy the pvdoor , zerging ,,, that the current game has degenerated to so let’s try identify the impact rewarding these player behavior has so things can be done.

[Acidic]

Yep we left like many before and many will in the future. That's down to other reasons that aren't allowed to be discussed on the forum. We have never left RvR even when outnumbered and fight even with 80% + aao.

Lets stick on the topic of the reward model driving order behaviour that's making rvr very dull

it is sticking 100% to topic.
order cant take open fights, they defend wc or keep. many ppl before me already explained.
byt seems u think diferent. when u cant defeat someone u left it. byt when u face weaker than u , and they leave wc/keep loog out , than u are angry. and come here to spread out topiks how bad is keeps and bad is order. its basicly same. . ppl dodge parts of game if they cant beat oponent or atleast give fight. yes we loose byt atleast we also get kills and fun.
and city sieges are badly designed as endgame.

This is not the topic, that is trying to discus balance.
The translation of what you write from this thread perspective is order is not affected by the reward model and chose only to fight on their own terms.

I would suggest otherwise as certain guilds do fight and win, we know destro pugs fight order organised and lose. So it appears what you are saying is there is enough benefit in the system that they only need to fight when they have an advantage in their eyes

PS this is my opinion and not HoB , no point trying to drag this to specific guild direction.

[normanis]

This is an RvR game not a hide in a keep game. I could go hide in a wardrobe in my house if I wanted to but id rather do something more exciting. Been on order a little bit recently and so sad to see the constant t4 messages telling people to give up and hide. As Finbarr said this game is good when there's reasonable balance between sides. If half of one faction are hiding then we will never get there. Taking bags away from a keep defense takes away the incentive to afk till one occurs. By all means triple the rewards for actual fights to make up for it.

so this is excuse to not siege, byt come and tell on forum why there is so many invitebla city sieges than aldorf? maby because u all are too bisy wc camp?
give coockies also to order miror clases i would also spam gtdc nonstop with 10sec cd (acording to forum)
so basicly if order refuse play your t1 game wc camping u come here on forum and make threads how keep sieges are bad. and why ranged biased order are hiding in keep??? maby because of bugged pulls and mindless zerg? gives us also bugged pulls. why only 1 side has upper hand in keep and ather dont have. this is unaceptable.
even your sistem will be approved, what does its mean. constant wc camping. (like now is diferent), u build like in t1 points toward 100% and zone is locked. go next zone and camp wc nonstop. than another. no mater is it destro or order they will do it.
i reaveal my plan how should look like pvp with keeps
in first i whant to say previous keep lord sutem was nice (control objects, lord deal more damage)
0 rank - no bonuses . just keep defences no oil no engine no respawn
1rank- oil, spawn in keep no ather bonuses like engineering canons/rams
2rank - oil/spawn/all engineering (limited)
3rank - all previous bonuses + more munnition to canons . no pasdoor using as attacker
4/5 - all previous bonuses + godlike lord
so basicly enemy will try stop u from ranking keep, to make it easer for tham. here comes all open field fights. batle objectives controls, more obejctives u control fatter tick of boxes and stronger ranking keep. like 1 obj- no xpierence to rank keep. 2 objects - 100/ 3 - 150 and 4 give - 400 per box
attacking side for taking x rank keep take better rr and bags than taking 0 star.
gold start drop after 2 stars.
0 - star white
1star -blue
and so on.
atleast its my point of view.
atmoment its not like that its 1 sided, or lotd clones. and we all know who win in lotd fights. order dont have keeps there just wc.

The thread is about rewards influence on player behavior. Kind of what the title says.
Balance of game find another thread please.
The part regardsing why destro city is permanatly sigeded in in scope as that is diown to order group being rewarded for doing pve and rewarded with pvp rewards

Also good you have ideas for the campaign but also another thread.

It should be obvious that some do not enjoy the pvdoor , zerging ,,, that the current game has degenerated to so let’s try identify the impact rewarding these player behavior has so things can be done.

-The thread is about rewards influence on player behavior. Kind of what the title says.-
actually it is already ingame , slack in wc. 1 time entered rvr and after get killed, u 2 hours guarding mailbox. no rewards.
player behaviour? u mean what. not going in open field where is constant wc camping. or giving free kills to attackers?
i am not english byt your title says - is reward model driving current population inbalance-
my answers are very in theme. about keep rank system, and rewards. ppl siege empty keeps because no punishment, no defenders. defenders cant spawn in keep to defend it. its driving population away. why would destro even try to get into keep if all posterns are guarded. in na timezone. they waiting evening when destro wbs log so they can do same. if u read all thread ppl before me already told it. its boring system atm. favour zerg.
u adding loot/rr counts on those who do more damage. its already ingame. cant tell u exact byt in forum some said bigger dps u get loot and rr more than ather who hited that target. if its works on 1 person its works also in wb vs wb, and outside wb.

[Zxul]

Think of live- pug could very much fight back there. Core issue of RoR- here it was decided that it is a team based game, and you must team up to achieve anything. Solo oriented abilities/builds were nerfed, while team oriented abilities/synergies were buffed. With the expected result, that unless you play in a very specific way- 2/2/2, max team play and synergy- you can't fight back against someone that does.

No they could not, take off the rose tinted glasses.
Is it not weird that during the whole last event the majority of 6 man premades stacked 1/3/2 ranged or even 1/4/1 setups with ranged DPS?

Pretty sure I was pug, being usually unteamed and all, and yes in fights that I was involved in premades were killed.

And who exactly cares about 6v6, which is a tiny minority of population which doesn't matters. Especially in thread specifically about rvr.

Simplest example, see the st rdps builds, and all the nerfs which they got. In RoR sov st rdps won't be able to solo burst a guarded and healed ruin mdps- which would counter melee train and premades very nicely.

So one ruin geared melee dps kills a healed and guarded sov ranged dps in the current iteration? Furthermore if you manage to play the game, your healer will stagger the ruin melee dps healer, while your tank punt the ruin dps or their tank away and all of the sudden you can burst him from 100-0 in a GCD on ranged. Legit skill issue. I guess you never played against exodus ranged comp.

See above- this thread is about rvr, not about 6v6 which is a minor niche which a very tiny percentage of population actually cares about.

It isn't about l2p, getting good, etc- it is about in RoR all the ways of play and builds which could counter the premades were intentionally nerfed, with the expected results that we see today.

Yes think about the solo players in a game based around 24 man wbs. Save the pugs who get farmed. Give back RR 100 and ojira and the hidden buffs, so that people can 3 man PUG wbs by facerolling something that usually requires a 6 man right now, surely that will be healthy for the server. The reason why 90% of the server is getting farmed is because they have no idea what they are doing, I still see people who press HTL in melee engagements, I still see people who use AoE punts on CD or punt ranged dps away from the melee train, people how pop focused mind and turn their back to mara when he pulls, Engi/magus who spam mine/infestation for "damage", there is so much free root immunity you can get from your average ORvR player it is insane. Not having a clue about what you are doing is a skill issue.

Making stuff up really doesn't proves your point. Only point in which 100 could actually survive vs even a team was during uber procs + hidden lvl 45 era, which got nerfed on live pretty fast. +there was some more then usual bugged lotd talis time, which once again got nerfed long before live went down.

Back to the point, whatever is the skill lvl of the server, it doesn't changes the fact that RoR specifically nerfed the non team meta builds which could deal with premades. Rdps nerfs- burst, kiting ability of rsw/rsh, being a good example.

[normanis]

B) remove rewards from zone, including forts and LoTD where the aao average is too lobsided

didnt understand word lobsided. u mean if defenders are few ppl and attackers are more(lets say 100+aao). than no rewards to attackers? ppl will start abuse it aspecialy in lotd. they will leave lotd and no rewards to destro. or for example eu time zone order cant fight with destro megazerg guilds and they just log off so aao reach critical point where u dont get loot? i think noone will play that or start abuse it. its bad design. or explain better.