Is reward model driving current population inbalance

[Zxul]

And they blob up pretty fast. Not to mention, the 6 man in rvr hunt soloers, so like I said 6v6 doesn't matters.

Great input. 6 mans blob up but don't matter in large scale when they blob up.

Reading hard much?

Since apparently reading comprehension isn't your strongest side, I will explain again. "your healer will stagger the ruin melee dps healer, while your tank punt the ruin dps or their tank away"- nothing new about in last 15 years or so, you could do that back on live just fine. And still isn't relevant in rvr, which isn't 6v6 dueling. I repeat, 6v6 is a minor niche which a very tiny percentage of population actually cares about- you simply do not matter on a large scale.

My reading comprehension is fine, the issue is your complete absence of logic and coherency. In WBs you do punt tanks and you punt mDPS to get kills, I understand that your PUG wb maybe still spam AoE and blame GTDC/Rampage for the reason you are dying, but I will promise you that if your tanks start punting instead of HTL in the melee blob, thinks will be easier. But to be fair I don't expect you have this realization.

Been quite a few years since I last led a rvr wb:P But to be fair I don't expect you to be able to read this- tanks won't punt anyone in 48+ vs 48+- too much dmg and immunities going around, and tanks- like I posted already- don't have here nearly the mitigation which they had on live.

"But my 6 man yesterday"- yep, I know, now go read it again.

"punts and CC is still a huge part in WB play and in particular in wb vs wb"- CC yes, however not in a way its used in 6v6. Punts- tanks here ain't Djolle (which still was burstable if you specced right), you ain't punting no one in 48+ vs 48+ fight- not to mention immunities.

Oh but you are. I spent most of yesterday afternoon/evening punting Formosa tanks in BC and TC.

And how many people were actually in that fight?

Good 6 man- thanks for proving my point- "builds which could counter the premades were intentionally nerfed, with the expected results that we see today".

Here we go again, not replying with anything solid or concrete, instead "kiting was nerfed, I won't say what was nerfed but it was NERFED!!", "RDPS was nerfed!" "anti-premade builds were nerfed!", tell me one of these anti-premade builds that allowed PUG wbs to counter premade that would not be stronger in the hands of premades?

Any builds which allowed functioning without party synergy- rsw kiting which I mentioned, toughness builds- by not updating toughness sets in years (last decent magus toughness set for example in annihilator), general single target rdps burst nerfs, etc.

Specifically about kiting, since its still not clear to you- if a good enough solo rsw can kite and kill a 3 man+, like they could on live, the uber skilled 6 man which expect to be able to kill anything when having guard+ heals get upset.

Changes to rsw builds so they can no longed permasnare and permakite, like they could back on live, which was pretty nice vs those 3 man pug killers which you mentioned. Wonder what happened to Tony, still have memories.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081217044 ... aspx?id=18

They haven't touched it, if you want perma snare specc keen arrowheads, they have not touched the snare component since live, rather they buffed rSW to get a KD that did not require VoN. But maybe you'll wake up from your delirium and realise that I am not the one making things up.

As far as I remember it was something with stances, was done way back in the beginning of ror specifically to prevent sw permakiting. Feel free to backtrack sw changes over the years.

Like I said, reading comprehension. Go read again what did I post and why. As for "majority including you have no idea what buttons you are pressing"- I'm impressed by it almost as much as I'm impressed by you assuming that tactic commonly used in last 15 years or so is some great secret game knowledge that only a few best players on server know.

More incoherent ramblings from you.

If it is so hard to you to read, may I suggest the following?

https://www.udemy.com/topic/reading-comprehension/

[Rapzel]

And they blob up pretty fast. Not to mention, the 6 man in rvr hunt soloers, so like I said 6v6 doesn't matters.

Great input. 6 mans blob up but don't matter in large scale when they blob up.

Reading hard much?

Since apparently reading comprehension isn't your strongest side, I will explain again. "your healer will stagger the ruin melee dps healer, while your tank punt the ruin dps or their tank away"- nothing new about in last 15 years or so, you could do that back on live just fine. And still isn't relevant in rvr, which isn't 6v6 dueling. I repeat, 6v6 is a minor niche which a very tiny percentage of population actually cares about- you simply do not matter on a large scale.

My reading comprehension is fine, the issue is your complete absence of logic and coherency. In WBs you do punt tanks and you punt mDPS to get kills, I understand that your PUG wb maybe still spam AoE and blame GTDC/Rampage for the reason you are dying, but I will promise you that if your tanks start punting instead of HTL in the melee blob, thinks will be easier. But to be fair I don't expect you have this realization.

Been quite a few years since I last led a rvr wb:P But to be fair I don't expect you to be able to read this- tanks won't punt anyone in 48+ vs 48+- too much dmg and immunities going around, and tanks- like I posted already- don't have here nearly the mitigation which they had on live.

"But my 6 man yesterday"- yep, I know, now go read it again.

"punts and CC is still a huge part in WB play and in particular in wb vs wb"- CC yes, however not in a way its used in 6v6. Punts- tanks here ain't Djolle (which still was burstable if you specced right), you ain't punting no one in 48+ vs 48+ fight- not to mention immunities.

Oh but you are. I spent most of yesterday afternoon/evening punting Formosa tanks in BC and TC.

And how many people were actually in that fight?

Good 6 man- thanks for proving my point- "builds which could counter the premades were intentionally nerfed, with the expected results that we see today".

Here we go again, not replying with anything solid or concrete, instead "kiting was nerfed, I won't say what was nerfed but it was NERFED!!", "RDPS was nerfed!" "anti-premade builds were nerfed!", tell me one of these anti-premade builds that allowed PUG wbs to counter premade that would not be stronger in the hands of premades?

Any builds which allowed functioning without party synergy- rsw kiting which I mentioned, toughness builds- by not updating toughness sets in years (last decent magus toughness set for example in annihilator), general single target rdps burst nerfs, etc.

Specifically about kiting, since its still not clear to you- if a good enough solo rsw can kite and kill a 3 man+, like they could on live, the uber skilled 6 man which expect to be able to kill anything when having guard+ heals get upset.

Changes to rsw builds so they can no longed permasnare and permakite, like they could back on live, which was pretty nice vs those 3 man pug killers which you mentioned. Wonder what happened to Tony, still have memories.

https://web.archive.org/web/20081217044 ... aspx?id=18

They haven't touched it, if you want perma snare specc keen arrowheads, they have not touched the snare component since live, rather they buffed rSW to get a KD that did not require VoN. But maybe you'll wake up from your delirium and realise that I am not the one making things up.

As far as I remember it was something with stances, was done way back in the beginning of ror specifically to prevent sw permakiting. Feel free to backtrack sw changes over the years.

Like I said, reading comprehension. Go read again what did I post and why. As for "majority including you have no idea what buttons you are pressing"- I'm impressed by it almost as much as I'm impressed by you assuming that tactic commonly used in last 15 years or so is some great secret game knowledge that only a few best players on server know.

More incoherent ramblings from you.

If it is so hard to you to read, may I suggest the following?

https://www.udemy.com/topic/reading-comprehension/

"Something with stances". Toughness sets = builds to counter premades. Thank you for your sacrifice to donate warcrests and rp.

[githappens]

Also, I'd like to add that weight of bags in oRvR is too low. Gold bag is often worth as much as 1h of SC spam (not including drops from kills, but mostly likely more kills will happen in SCs than RvR).

That doesn't help in keeping RvR alive and forces even more lowbie pugs vs BiS premades in SCs.

[Shanell]

And then suddenly nobody wants to do keep pushes and everyone blobs up to vacuum up kills.

I can't stress enough how I find idea of that much more attractive than moving in empty zone from one BO to another BO to get boxes to keep and ocasionally 48 players meet 2-3 players and annihilate them and this for 1 hour before standing near keep_door_1 for 15 minutes to stand nead keep_door_2 for next 15 minutes to be able to - maybe, if stars are alligned - to kill some people who decided to stay at 3rd floor.
That's now RvR. That's borderline PvE.

I am up for chaotic pug vs pug blobed up in one zone killing each other and getting items. crests and fun.

[Scottx125]

And then suddenly nobody wants to do keep pushes and everyone blobs up to vacuum up kills.

I can't stress enough how I find idea of that much more attractive than moving in empty zone from one BO to another BO to get boxes to keep and ocasionally 48 players meet 2-3 players and annihilate them and this for 1 hour before standing near keep_door_1 for 15 minutes to stand nead keep_door_2 for next 15 minutes to be able to - maybe, if stars are alligned - to kill some people who decided to stay at 3rd floor.
That's now RvR. That's borderline PvE.

I am up for chaotic pug vs pug blobed up in one zone killing each other and getting items. crests and fun.

Unfortunately that's not how the game is designed. It's designed to have coordinated groups attack keeps to advance the RVR Campaign. As of now the RVR campaign means absolutely nothing and hence people are like "What's the point we're just giving free bags if we lose". You also fail to realise, even if we move away completely from keep pushes. If people keep getting wiped by the same blob again and again, they'll simply log off, or afk in the WC until the situation changes or they'll play something else. That's not healthy for the game.

[Gerggregsson]

We need actual Tiers. Something like T1 for lvls 1-12. T2 13-26. T3 27-39...
But with player amounts we have, probably should be T1 for 1-19. T2-3 for 20-39/under rr45 and T4 should be lvl 40/45.

No.
This is a terrible idea. Reason dev's merged tiers was because pop is too low.
In early days of ROR most of Tier1-3 were empty and people didnt have enough numbers to pull off sieges.
I remember back in 2012 on live that when I was levelling through T2-T3 that I discovered most rvr zones were empty, as a result many people just ignored them and carried on to continue solo pve levelling to rush to endgame T4.
Even with those adjustments, the pop currently is too low anyway.
Not to mention its taking content away from T4, already stretching thin what this game has to offer endgame regarding replayable content.

Some things need to be gated. You should get something from Fortress+City purple/blue bags that are Boe And Wpns/cloaks that have procs and cant get them anywhere else. These would be Bop ofc. Its weird how i miss the first iteration of city siege which end goal was PVE. Stage I was PvP and if you won, you got loot rolls, invader AND purple bag wpns with procs and 60 dps. Stage 2 was Warlord Lords, same thing but 63 dps with procs in purple bags. Then on the way to kill the king instance Heros and Lords dropped 66 dps wpns with procs and then to King itself and that dropped sovereign, nothing else.

Heck no. Unfortunately, a few out-of-touch veterans here still continue to whine about liking some outdated 2008 nostalgia where everything bis was gatekeeped, but it was removed for a reason here, many fresh/pug people were getting blocked from getting gear because of elite bis premades who farmed pugs in cities, preventing non-vet players from getting geared, widening the gear creep and preventing casual players from ever having a remote chance to get bis gear.

New 2023 mmorpg players nowadays who join the game or on the fence researching this game wouldn't be motivated by your proposed reversal, causing retention rate of new players to decline even more.

Your change would hurt the game even more so in today's game climate faction-wise:
Order wins majority of forts, especially on NA Destro where they rarely win any forts and hardly any cities at all.

Your suggestion would prevent NA Destro from getting geared, increasing the roflstomp from overpopulated NA order in terms of pvp content (rvr, scenarios, and cities) causing more Destro to quit or reroll order to achieve gear otherwise virtually unattainable on Destro.

[Sinisterror]

We need actual Tiers. Something like T1 for lvls 1-12. T2 13-26. T3 27-39...
But with player amounts we have, probably should be T1 for 1-19. T2-3 for 20-39/under rr45 and T4 should be lvl 40/45.

No.
This is a terrible idea. Reason dev's merged tiers was because pop is too low.
In early days of ROR most of Tier1-3 were empty and people didnt have enough numbers to pull off sieges.
I remember back in 2012 on live that when I was levelling through T2-T3 that I discovered most rvr zones were empty, as a result many people just ignored them and carried on to continue solo pve levelling to rush to endgame T4.
Even with those adjustments, the pop currently is too low anyway.
Not to mention its taking content away from T4, already stretching thin what this game has to offer endgame regarding replayable content.

Some things need to be gated. You should get something from Fortress+City purple/blue bags that are Boe And Wpns/cloaks that have procs and cant get them anywhere else. These would be Bop ofc. Its weird how i miss the first iteration of city siege which end goal was PVE. Stage I was PvP and if you won, you got loot rolls, invader AND purple bag wpns with procs and 60 dps. Stage 2 was Warlord Lords, same thing but 63 dps with procs in purple bags. Then on the way to kill the king instance Heros and Lords dropped 66 dps wpns with procs and then to King itself and that dropped sovereign, nothing else.

Heck no. Unfortunately, a few out-of-touch veterans here still continue to whine about liking some outdated 2008 nostalgia where everything bis was gatekeeped, but it was removed for a reason here, many fresh/pug people were getting blocked from getting gear because of elite bis premades who farmed pugs in cities, preventing non-vet players from getting geared, widening the gear creep and preventing casual players from ever having a remote chance to get bis gear.

New 2023 mmorpg players nowadays who join the game or on the fence researching this game wouldn't be motivated by your proposed reversal, causing retention rate of new players to decline even more.

Your change would hurt the game even more so in today's game climate faction-wise:
Order wins majority of forts, especially on NA Destro where they rarely win any forts and hardly any cities at all.

Your suggestion would prevent NA Destro from getting geared, increasing the roflstomp from overpopulated NA order in terms of pvp content (rvr, scenarios, and cities) causing more Destro to quit or reroll order to achieve gear otherwise virtually unattainable on Destro.

: D Nothing you say about what i want is true? I never said that actual sets should be gated, hell no. This crest system is much better than the old one. BUT i Do believe if there is Proc wpns/cloaks in purple bags that you cant buy anywhere or get them anywhere else it would help peoples interest in doing them. I also dont want to get rid off personal loots BUT i do want the old loot system on top of the personal and that would give actual gear pieces in gold bags and purple bags would give those proc wpns im talking about.

So i mean what is the problem? you get everything you get now but extra is possible + forts and cities, if they had good proc items on purple bags (not bis or set pieces) i def wouyld have more interest in doing them.

Im definetely not one of those "Vets" who want it hard because the BS reason of " Because i had to do it you have to do it too " I hate that mentality, and i always say to new people if i see them not using pots or talismans or anythjing wrong or not helpful on them, i will tell them what will help i will never insult someone because their lack of knowledge. It is interesting that some people reakt to my helping thgem with insane profanity... It's sad there is so low self-esteem on someone that they start to harass you if you try to help=) Also because i say its weird how i miss the first iteration of City Siege whhich was PVE and then i say i probably miss it because of the ccoordination or "brotherhood" feeling of what that gave me. I never said that iteration should be in RoR i was just in nostalgia mode=)

EDIT; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zvFSdIsF4 There is my dps dok from 2017 or 2018. And the game actually worked better than it does now and population was so much more heallthier than its now.

[Wyzard]

it was all downhill after BO ticks were removed. it was the unsung glue holding functional rvr together, removed without thought, leading to a cascade of changing behaviours and resulting in what we see now

you wanted to vilify players for "just sitting on BOs"? well great, now they just sit in keeps where you can't even kill them. box running is mind numbing

agree with this 100%

[Scottx125]

it was all downhill after BO ticks were removed. it was the unsung glue holding functional rvr together, removed without thought, leading to a cascade of changing behaviours and resulting in what we see now

you wanted to vilify players for "just sitting on BOs"? well great, now they just sit in keeps where you can't even kill them. box running is mind numbing

agree with this 100%

I would also say guaranteed scheduled cities didn't help. I agree they should be locked to set times when most people are on. But they shouldn't be guaranteed every 72h. People should have to actively push zones up unlock city. And cities should give the winners access to certain rewards like a special dungeon etc.

[Lion1986]

it was all downhill after BO ticks were removed. it was the unsung glue holding functional rvr together, removed without thought, leading to a cascade of changing behaviours and resulting in what we see now

you wanted to vilify players for "just sitting on BOs"? well great, now they just sit in keeps where you can't even kill them. box running is mind numbing

agree with this 100%

I would also say guaranteed scheduled cities didn't help. I agree they should be locked to set times when most people are on. But they shouldn't be guaranteed every 72h. People should have to actively push zones up unlock city. And cities should give the winners access to certain rewards like a special dungeon etc.

before they were like this and ppl complained that non eu time fellas, due to lack of pop, lost always the opportunity to run cities