Is reward model driving current population inbalance

[Scottx125]

agree with this 100%

I would also say guaranteed scheduled cities didn't help. I agree they should be locked to set times when most people are on. But they shouldn't be guaranteed every 72h. People should have to actively push zones up unlock city. And cities should give the winners access to certain rewards like a special dungeon etc.

before they were like this and ppl complained that non eu time fellas, due to lack of pop, lost always the opportunity to run cities

No, before they just happened after X contribution had been reached. What I'm proposing is a mixed system. You require X contribution and then after X time a city will spawn on a rotating time basis. Early EU/ Late EU(early NA) / Late NA. As far as I'm aware it didn't rotate through set times. It was just a fixed time after you reached the required resources, leading to most cities happening after EU prime, usually early morning. Or we could drop the frequency of cities and have the contribution towards that city act like a reward meter, unlocking more rewards the more keeps you push.

[Gerggregsson]

: D Nothing you say about what i want is true? I never said that actual sets should be gated, hell no. This crest system is much better than the old one. BUT i Do believe if there is Proc wpns/cloaks in purple bags that you cant buy anywhere or get them anywhere else it would help peoples interest in doing them. I also dont want to get rid off personal loots BUT i do want the old loot system on top of the personal and that would give actual gear pieces in gold bags and purple bags would give those proc wpns im talking about.

So i mean what is the problem? you get everything you get now but extra is possible + forts and cities, if they had good proc items on purple bags (not bis or set pieces) i def wouyld have more interest in doing them.

Im definetely not one of those "Vets" who want it hard because the BS reason of " Because i had to do it you have to do it too " I hate that mentality, and i always say to new people if i see them not using pots or talismans or anythjing wrong or not helpful on them, i will tell them what will help i will never insult someone because their lack of knowledge. It is interesting that some people reakt to my helping thgem with insane profanity... It's sad there is so low self-esteem on someone that they start to harass you if you try to help=) Also because i say its weird how i miss the first iteration of City Siege whhich was PVE and then i say i probably miss it because of the ccoordination or "brotherhood" feeling of what that gave me. I never said that iteration should be in RoR i was just in nostalgia mode=)

EDIT; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8zvFSdIsF4 There is my dps dok from 2017 or 2018. And the game actually worked better than it does now and population was so much more heallthier than its now.

Yes . Those are great valid points and I agree with you.
Forts and cities would be more interesting if they had some new kind of proc weapon/cloak in bags that players would be extra-motivated for as an alternative form of endgame gear. I think everyone would be excited about this.

So far, the only thing Forts have unlockable are those small amount of epic dyes in wb loot, but actual gear should help increase interest in forts. Not everyone would get guaranteed bags/loot and there is always the slower option of getting gear from crests. It's a win-win situation where everyone is happy.

Also, I know kings ( Tchar'zanek and Karl Franz) offer pve quests for city (to kill enemy king) but the reward is just some experience and small coin. How about these offer some crests instead like 10x crests such as the pvp reward from the T1 Ch1. SC/rvr quests?
Story-wise, city is a seriously important thing and should give at least something useful to players instead of garbage from such a quest.

Also hoping someday that devs will implement a new city: Karak-Eight-Peaks and Karaz-a-Karak rvr city fights. The fact that both of these cities have rvr keeps in their Middle Deep areas suggest Mythic Entertainment had the idea of using Underway entrances (Ungdrin Ankor for Destro in KZK and Skaven entrance for order in K8P) as starting points who fight defenders in the T2 keeps facing them: "Citadel of Grungni" keep for dwarves and "Ratbreaka Stand" keep for Greenskins. Another stage where they fight for BO's located in different wings of middle deeps. Another stage where they fight for BO's located in different wings on upper/main floor. Final stage where they fight king (Thorgrim Grudgebearer for Destro and Grumlok/Gazbag for order).

And cities should give the winners access to certain rewards like a special dungeon etc.

I think city rank should matter.
If there is a special dungeon that is unlockable with a 5-star city rank than it could be new dungeon maybe?. Not barring the other faction (who has a low city rank) from making CNT or BB/BE inaccessible. Faction imbalance blocking underdog with pve-city content that has always been there (CNT/BB/BE) would not be a good idea.

What about high city rank giving rewards besides a special dungeon like...
Discounts. Discounts on rvr gear regarding crest costs. Maybe a 20% discount on all crest gear if city is 5 star, 15% discount is 4 star, 10% discount if 3 star, 5% discount if 2 star?

Remember the special City PQ's from live? Those could be brought back ( I hope someday).These could be unlocked based on city-rank like 5-star.

[githappens]

I think city rank should matter.

Please no.
Destro already has crippled population outside of prime time and order has easy PvD. Punishing destro for not having 5 stars would make it only worse. We don't have server population to support such ideas.

[Gerggregsson]

I think city rank should matter.

Please no.
Destro already has crippled population outside of prime time and order has easy PvD. Punishing destro for not having 5 stars would make it only worse. We don't have server population to support such ideas.

Yes, this is true unfortunately.
NA Destro often has had lower city-rank for a while so that wouldn't be fair.

As is it stands now the amount of stars in City Rank affects rewards earned from city currently:

Rewards are now based on City Rating.

- Cities Rating can now change. A cities rating will increase over the following time periods.

1 -> 2 in 12 hours

2 -> 3 in 16 hours

3 -> 4 in 20 hours

4 -> 5 in 24 hours

- The time until the next city rating will be displayed when you hover over a city on the world map.

- When all instances of a City Siege has finished the winning realm will be decided by how many instances had been won. If defenders win the city will decrease by 2 ranks (e.g. 4 -> 2), if attackers win the city will decrease to rank 1 regardless of its previous rank.

- Base Crest rewards for City Sieges are now dependent on the cities rating:

If you are participating in a siege city with a rating of 1 you will receive nothing per stage loss.
If win a city stage the amount of [War Crest] you get will receive depends on the City Rating, 10 crests per star for each stage win (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) and 4 Crests per star for each stage loss (4, 8, 12, 16, 20).

https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/City_Sieges

[gustavorey35]

because one side will have more people depending on the time zone or the amount of xrealm that are on one side or the other considering who has more advantage, in this case a damage debuff would be indicated for avoid overload of soldiers, the essence is the fight for the territories and the defense of the castle is great, you cannot force the fight to pvp in the open field because each faction has a fighting style, aggressive / defensive, the reward for defense is the right thing as in the victory by attack

[Zxul]

"Something with stances". Toughness sets = builds to counter premades. Thank you for your sacrifice to donate warcrests and rp.

Ahh ok, so you have no idea how mechanics and gameplay work outside of 6 man, you should have just said so.

Here is an example. Your uber 3 man wb killing premade runs into 2 unteamed toughness maguses. The maguses use toughness/absorbs/Aegis/regen to deal with dps dmg- back in the day I could have 2 mdps on my magus without guard or heals, and survive for long enough. The two maguses then burst down the dps of the 3 man, then the heal, and then the tank.

The 3 man premade then runs to devs crying "but we were teamed, its unfair they can win without guard and heals, its a team game, nerf plzzzzz". Followed by the current situation.

[githappens]

Ahh ok, so you have no idea how mechanics and gameplay work outside of 6 man, you should have just said so.

Here is an example. Your uber 3 man wb killing premade runs into 2 unteamed toughness maguses. The maguses use toughness/absorbs/Aegis/regen to deal with dps dmg- back in the day I could have 2 mdps on my magus without guard or heals, and survive for long enough. The two maguses then burst down the dps of the 3 man, then the heal, and then the tank.

The 3 man premade then runs to devs crying "but we were teamed, its unfair they can win without guard and heals, its a team game, nerf plzzzzz". Followed by the current situation.

You asume 3 or 6 mans just trade damage. One Magus is probably a) detaunted, b) staggered or silenced c) punted to the moon, or all combined together, while other is focused under debuffs. One mostly likely is challenged (if not both), if said 3 man gained any morale before fight, you may even eat Bellows. Keep in mind defensive morales on dps (SW/BW/Slayer) can ruin whole trading damage scheme (and yes I know you've undefendable stuff, but it limits your options), WL wouldn't even engage but pull one with pet.

Won't even comment idea of trading damage with guarded and healed target using detaunts, proper smallscale tank will stick to his dps even if that means afking.

Unless by premade you men 3 random plebs under group who don't even communitate and have no idea what they are doing.

[Zxul]

Ahh ok, so you have no idea how mechanics and gameplay work outside of 6 man, you should have just said so.

Here is an example. Your uber 3 man wb killing premade runs into 2 unteamed toughness maguses. The maguses use toughness/absorbs/Aegis/regen to deal with dps dmg- back in the day I could have 2 mdps on my magus without guard or heals, and survive for long enough. The two maguses then burst down the dps of the 3 man, then the heal, and then the tank.

The 3 man premade then runs to devs crying "but we were teamed, its unfair they can win without guard and heals, its a team game, nerf plzzzzz". Followed by the current situation.

You asume 3 or 6 mans just trade damage. One Magus is probably a) detaunted, b) staggered or silenced c) punted to the moon, or all combined together, while other is focused under debuffs. One mostly likely is challenged (if not both), if said 3 man gained any morale before fight, you may even eat Bellows. Keep in mind defensive morales on dps (SW/BW/Slayer) can ruin whole trading damage scheme (and yes I know you've undefendable stuff, but it limits your options), WL wouldn't even engage but pull one with pet.

Won't even comment idea of trading damage with guarded and healed target using detaunts, proper smallscale tank will stick to his dps even if that means afking.

Unless by premade you men 3 random plebs under group who don't even communitate and have no idea what they are doing.

Detaunted- likely, if its a premade. Still, you got 2 maguses. Staggered or silenced- stagger is at most 6 sec, silence is 3-4. Back in the day toughness magus could survive quite a bit more then that vs 1 dps+1 tank, so the burst is after its over. Punted- magus has 65 to 100 ft range on most abilities, so he burst just fine from where he got punted to. Focused under debuff- like I said, getting past 900+ toughness+ absorb tactic+ regen+ Aegis+ pots isn't that easy even today, despite toughness magus equip not being upgraded in 5 years or so. Challenged- magus dot rotation includes aoe dots, so Challenge is removed. Bellow is m3, so won't be up usually (unless indeed its not 2v3). Defensive morals is 10 sec at most, if you see it up as magus just detaunt the dps and wait a bit.

All which you listed existed back on live as well, don't assume abilities which were used 15 years ago is somehow new and unknown.

[Acidic]

Let’s try stay on topic, rewards affecting pop imbalance or not, I’m sure 6 man tactics are not directly on topic thread

[Gerggregsson]

A) remove the keep defense bag and keep take rvr, this is just like any BO and should have similar reward, small tick.

Bad idea.
Removing keep defense bag would hurt any incentive by NA Destro to defend keeps against overpopulated NA order completely.
Underdog would only have tagging empty BO's as a last resort, if defending keep gives no rewards, even less Destro will ever show up compared to now, skyrocketing the empty pvDoor dilemma and faction imbalance.

If Destro has aao, getting a keep defense bag plus those aao goodies should hopefully motivate xrealmers to come on over and join the fight.

90min realm lockout timer is a serious problem here that needs to be removed. It's already been proven repeatedly that its preventing xrealmer wbs from switching to Destro in extremely lop-sided fights.
It's a failed experiment that needs to be thrown away where it belongs, in the trash.

B) remove rewards from zone, including forts and LoTD where the aao average is too lobsided

Bad idea.
Players want something for invested efforts instead of nothing. This seems way too harsh for players on both sides to bother fighting for absolutely nothing.

C) reduce / remove rr from assisting if u or you group did not do at least 20% (arbitrary number) of damage to player

Bad idea.
How are healers healing or tanks guarding going to gain renown from this concept?
This would increase dps class pop but exacerbate tank/healer shortages.

Taking rewards away from the game isnt going to help population imbalance, it will help kill off more interest for rvr on both sides equally, causing more players to quit on both sides.
Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.