Scenario Matchmaking Rework Megathread

[Zxul]

those dreaded words typed into sc chat "I don't heal I'm dps".

On the side note reminds me of a zealot which I had back on live, named Selfhealsonly. Made people so happy when I entered a sc in dps spec "omfg even zeal is dps".

[zumos2]

For the love of gods remove barriers, allow free entrance to your own wc and bring guard's kills renown. Then pugs may try and at some point succeed at fighting premade.

I have many found memories from WAR where prems lose to good bunch of pug players. To achive that pug player need the leverage of save spot to retired and possibility to gain something even if that is guard kill

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

100% agreed. Barriers just promote afk. Get rid of them and bring back guards for a chance to keep fighting

The exact opposite is true. When players lose they can just run back into their warcamp and afk. With barrier you are forced to actually fight.

[Nameless]

Agreed, should bring back guards and not barriers. Want to spawn camp, face the chance of getting pulled / punted into guards. The reason barriers were implemented appears to be to protect KDR for premades.

100% agreed. Barriers just promote afk. Get rid of them and bring back guards for a chance to keep fighting

The exact opposite is true. When players lose they can just run back into their warcamp and afk. With barrier you are forced to actually fight.

Not true, when you have barrier you got massacred or you run and hide. There is no fight cos composition, players skills, classes or whatever are not equal. So weaker side need leverage to put a fight. And that is safe spot for healers and rdps near guard. Allow renown for guard kills and even tanks and mdps will try to fight while got guarantee heals.
C'mon guys didnt you play scens at war. Everyine was fighting cos 1 guard kill was 2-3k renown.

You could even check surrender vote time (and even kills count cos barriers means less kills in total) on all scens with barriers vs all scens with way back to wc. You have the info just read it

[zumos2]

“We are also hoping to improve the scenario grouping if for any reason a premade is put against a pick up group. Although we want to mainly not mix pugs and premades.”

This is a really big worry. The game should promote players for making premades, not potentially punish them. If this system punishes you for forming a group by just not giving you scenario pops, that would be terrible.

In general I think that no scenario should pop without every group having at least 1 tank and 1 healer. If a full premade enters the scenario you could increase that restriction to always having a 2-2-2, so there is a good fighting chance. A random 2-2-2 with good players can still beat a bad full premade in a 12v12+ scenario.

Of course if there are an equal amount of premades on both sides they can be matched against each other. But if the system forces it, additional rewards would be fair. In general I think the rewards of scenarios vs RvR are imbalanced at the moment. Only feels worth doing scenarios during the weekend event.

[zumos2]

100% agreed. Barriers just promote afk. Get rid of them and bring back guards for a chance to keep fighting

The exact opposite is true. When players lose they can just run back into their warcamp and afk. With barrier you are forced to actually fight.

Not true, when you have barrier you got massacred or you run and hide. There is no fight cos composition, players skills, classes or whatever are not equal. So weaker side need leverage to put a fight. And that is safe spot for healers and rdps near guard. Allow renown for guard kills and even tanks and mdps will try to fight while got guarantee heals.
C'mon guys didnt you play scens at war. Everyine was fighting cos 1 guard kill was 2-3k renown.

You could even check surrender vote time (and even kills count cos barriers means less kills in total) on all scens with barriers vs all scens with way back to wc. You have the info just read it

I've dominated enough scenarios to tell you that when one side gets dominated they give up instantly with whatever system. But being able to just run back into your warcamp to afk and surrender is a stupid design. I've had scenario weekends where we get 10 wins and like 60-70 kills cause the enemy refuses to fight and just sits in their warcamp.

[Bozzax]

Nope you die one time then afk and lately I see more hide or book out (that makes it even more one sided) so I don't think barriers is working tbh. I Agree tho that players that recognize an impossible match/lineup/group would dodge wo barriers and likely more often.

Lately I'm personally just booking out of scs with 5 rdps vs a 6man it isn't worth the time. I watch footy instead

[Nameless]

The exact opposite is true. When players lose they can just run back into their warcamp and afk. With barrier you are forced to actually fight.

Not true, when you have barrier you got massacred or you run and hide. There is no fight cos composition, players skills, classes or whatever are not equal. So weaker side need leverage to put a fight. And that is safe spot for healers and rdps near guard. Allow renown for guard kills and even tanks and mdps will try to fight while got guarantee heals.
C'mon guys didnt you play scens at war. Everyine was fighting cos 1 guard kill was 2-3k renown.

You could even check surrender vote time (and even kills count cos barriers means less kills in total) on all scens with barriers vs all scens with way back to wc. You have the info just read it

I've dominated enough scenarios to tell you that when one side gets dominated they give up instantly with whatever system. But being able to just run back into your warcamp to afk and surrender is a stupid design. I've had scenario weekends where we get 10 wins and like 60-70 kills cause the enemy refuses to fight and just sits in their warcamp.

I play alot of scens myself here and back then on war. And unlike you I play both sweaty prems and soloing. All scens with guards gives much more opportunities for fights. It is still not equal but it is fight and pugs if good enough could make comeback. When barrier is there, you could get just farm fest for premade.
It is kinda sad that this is your preferred gameplay

[Bozzax]

Here are some reasonable questions to ponder when deciding what a good system is

1. Why are 6man groups allowed to queue SCs with randoms wo being queued in the group ranked queue at the same time? What are the positives / negatives of such a change?

2. What is the purpose of barriers? What other side effects does barriers give? (Good / bad?)

3. What is the intended purpose of surrender and what is the real outcomes (not intended outcome lets say premades playing for a surrender is a thing). Is making a really uneven match end faster making the experience of the queue as a whole better by ending the sc? What would be the benefit of not ending early?

4. Whati s the benefit of tieringat 40/XX vs a tiering that is based around lets say total stats? Would lets say 4+ days playtime be a good tiering when pooled with lets say players that have 300+ days

5. Why do we have a discordant queue, purpose and outcome? What would the benefits be from removing it? What would we loose? Why was it introduced at all? (root cause). Would a larger player pool in queue have any positive effects? (hint we see high rank players like Zarbix (just an example) queuing discordant queue and semi-afking in lake .... is this the wanted effect)

6. What is the benefit of playing one sc map for an entire weekend. Is it fun to play just one map? Could it be more fun with more maps?

7. Why are SCs limited to XvX ..... would it like RvR be possible to use numbers as a balancer? Would adding more players to really uneven be an improvement or would the stronger side feel ill treated?

8. Why are rule sets and maps linked 1:1 and would there be some side effect from having maps and rule sets being decoupled?

9. Would a matchmaker that uses one algorithm at low pops and another one at high pops make it more easy to cope with ebb and flow?

10 How could active sc-maps and open rvr-zones support each other and form a cohesive experience? Can they be linked? Would there be any possitives or is it just a stupid idea with IP and lore?

11. What are the player persona groups that the queue tries to make happy and what are these groups concerns and what makes them satisfied (what metrics is actually important)?

12. Could win streaks be a reason for the matchmaker to make harder opposition for that strong side? What would the benefit be? What would the downside be?

13. The ppl playing suppot classes seem to be on ATL making queue balancing even more complicated ... so would it be an improvement to promote good support play (reward this more) and possibly look at the multi-year power creep of dps that seem to be a RoR thing (a tad speculative but at least it looks that way)

14. Hope you get it right

[Akalukz]

just get rid of surrender. It is not a great asset to the game anyways.

[Nameless]

just get rid of surrender. It is not a great asset to the game anyways.

Yes, being idle for 15 mins behind barrier is top notch gameplay