Mind killer cleanese are you serious?

[Mergrim]

It also takes the Blackguard 3 GCDs to apply a -120 willpower and -120 intel debuff, where-as other tanks apply max-power debuffs almost passively. The only good thing about the ability is the tactic to give it a spammable heal debuff.

Yes, if cleanse is only removing 1 stack then the heal debuff becomes very strong if the blackguard devotes all their GCDs to maintaining multiple stacks on multiple people, but let's not act like the 120 Int/WP debuff for 3 GCDs is something to celebrate... after all, the IB can apply 480 willpower debuff to itself and oath friend at max grudge in a single GCD.

Cleanse only removing 1 stack not the whole stack does seem weird though, as AFAIK the stacks are considered the same curse/hex/etc just with increased scaling?

IB not debuff enemy, it's only buff for oathfriend, and 480point only if you invest max in Path of Brotherhood. Most ibs use oathfriend on dps, so the bonus itself is weak.

This need to be fixed asap. I see only 2 option:
-mind killer not stack
-mind killer 5sec cd (not affected by global cd reduce)

People who write that everything is ok and defend the current state have no idea about the game.

[akisnaakkeli]

It also takes the Blackguard 3 GCDs to apply a -120 willpower and -120 intel debuff, where-as other tanks apply max-power debuffs almost passively. The only good thing about the ability is the tactic to give it a spammable heal debuff.

Yes, if cleanse is only removing 1 stack then the heal debuff becomes very strong if the blackguard devotes all their GCDs to maintaining multiple stacks on multiple people, but let's not act like the 120 Int/WP debuff for 3 GCDs is something to celebrate... after all, the IB can apply 480 willpower debuff to itself and oath friend at max grudge in a single GCD.

Cleanse only removing 1 stack not the whole stack does seem weird though, as AFAIK the stacks are considered the same curse/hex/etc just with increased scaling?

IB not debuff enemy, it's only buff for oathfriend, and 480point only if you invest max in Path of Brotherhood. Most ibs use oathfriend on dps, so the bonus itself is weak.

This need to be fixed asap. I see only 2 option:
-mind killer not stack
-mind killer 5sec cd (not affected by global cd reduce)

People who write that everything is ok and defend the current state have no idea about the game.

WORD

[Lion1986]

Are you changing how cleansing works and leaving the mind killer BG as it is?

Mind Killer- no CD, stack 3 times, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic. Almost imposible to cleanse.

Meanwhile IB Inspiring Attack-5sec cd, not stack, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic.
How long has this situation existed?
You're just hammering another nail into the coffin. One step forward and 10 back.

The cleanse should cleanse the entire stack of mind killer.

same as WH that can literally spam free 50% healdebuff all time.

[akisnaakkeli]

Are you changing how cleansing works and leaving the mind killer BG as it is?

Mind Killer- no CD, stack 3 times, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic. Almost imposible to cleanse.

Meanwhile IB Inspiring Attack-5sec cd, not stack, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic.
How long has this situation existed?
You're just hammering another nail into the coffin. One step forward and 10 back.

The cleanse should cleanse the entire stack of mind killer.

same as WH that can literally spam free 50% healdebuff all time.

: D Why are you doing this? We has the same 50% healdebuff... And the issue is, to cleanse this outgoing hd you need to Cleanse it 3 times before its cleansed. Or what happens in the game, is that its NEVER cleansed because 3x stacks, just as soon the stacks becomes 2x you can just use it with no Cooldown to back 3x stacks again.

Its ETERNAL Outgoing HD that cant be dealt with. MINIMAL Action should be to cleanse all stacks with 1 Cleanse, and add 5s cooldown OR change the Hd to Brutal smash.

Edit; Oh and this seems to be common nowadays that people dont know that BG can increase his own and oathbuddy willpower by 480 same as IB. Can IB's now get grudge for hitting and not use tactic slot pls? Bgs got "Oathbuddy" 2009 and this was the moment they should have made IBs Rising Anger just part of the class not an Tactic.

[Sever1n]

Probably if bg will see target without hd he will just reaply it, not sure if it wise to waste 3 gcd on staking, cleance 5 sec cd and no guaranties that healdebuff will be cleanced even unstaked. Whole cleace mechanic is very whacky exept docs/wp. Bg have buff rotation, channeling, taunts, punts, and basilion other buttons better than waste in on presing 3 mind killer. If cleance removes stack of dot, then prob mind killer need same treatment, but dont think its apocalyptic problem. Most heals dont even have time to cleance properly cos 1gcd wasted on st non healing ability can result of insane drop of target or group hp, only real way was using it with hot tactic+winds. Just ask any am/rp/sham/zealot how often they use cleance when big pressure applied, and do they even use mass cleance tactic.

[Mergrim]

Are you changing how cleansing works and leaving the mind killer BG as it is?

Mind Killer- no CD, stack 3 times, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic. Almost imposible to cleanse.

Meanwhile IB Inspiring Attack-5sec cd, not stack, 50% outgoin heal debuff with tactic.
How long has this situation existed?
You're just hammering another nail into the coffin. One step forward and 10 back.

The cleanse should cleanse the entire stack of mind killer.

same as WH that can literally spam free 50% healdebuff all time.

I understand that you are comparing the heal debuff wh which lasts 5 seconds, needs a builder and finisher(2gcd) and not stack vs bg heal debuff that last 20sec, 1gcd and stack 3times?
If we just use math. 4x(20sec vs 5sec) x2(1gcd to active vs 2)x3(3stack vs no stack)=24...yea bg heal debuff is only 24 times better than wh debuff...
People who only play on one side of the conflict are blind.

Probably if bg will see target without hd he will just reaply it, not sure if it wise to waste 3 gcd on staking, cleance 5 sec cd and no guaranties that healdebuff will be cleanced even unstaked. Whole cleace mechanic is very whacky exept docs/wp. Bg have buff rotation, channeling, taunts, punts, and basilion other buttons better than waste in on presing 3 mind killer. If cleance removes stack of dot, then prob mind killer need same treatment, but dont think its apocalyptic problem. Most heals dont even have time to cleance properly cos 1gcd wasted on st non healing ability can result of insane drop of target or group hp, only real way was using it with hot tactic+winds. Just ask any am/rp/sham/zealot how often they use cleance when big pressure applied, and do they even use mass cleance tactic.

As a healer i use cleanse on cd...dok/wp aoe cleanse, am/shammy extra hot etc...If you think allowing a 20 second debuff outgoing heal for full duration isn't a big deal, then I don't know what is...

[Sever1n]

Tnx to how cleance works in this game any healer with experience start to realise that removing 1 random dot from 1 target covered with 10 dots is near uselles and non priority. Time to do that constantly have only dok/wp cos they hot based, dont have any real casted heals, have near zero burst crosshealing, and their cleance tactic works in better way than other heals. And still its highly random that it will cleance important dot and not rest 999, but will difinetly suck one gcd per 5 sec. When bg will reach u he will aply whole spectre of debuffs on u, and they have priority too, snare, armourshred, toughshred, healdebuf, crit debuff. And even if u will get lucky and be cleanced nonstop, even with 5 sec cd of mind killer u will be debufed with it no matter how u try to avoid that. I cannot even imagine how you can abuse it in 6vs6, bg will drop guard and start chasing healls to tripple stack them istead of folowing his dps and defending targets? I have bg and never staked it once really cos i need to maintain whole cycle of buffs/dots+cc bursts. Basically u dont have time for that nonsense. /by dots i mean debuffs*

[Mergrim]

Tnx to how cleance works in this game any healer with experience start to realise that removing 1 random dot from 1 target covered with 10 dots is near uselles and non priority. Time to do that constantly have only dok/wp cos they hot based, dont have any real casted heals, have near zero burst crosshealing, and their cleance tactic works in better way than other heals. And still its highly random that it will cleance important dot and not rest 999, but will difinetly suck one gcd per 5 sec. When bg will reach u he will aply whole spectre of debuffs on u, and they have priority too, snare, armourshred, toughshred, healdebuf, crit debuff. And even if u will get lucky and be cleanced nonstop, even with 5 sec cd of mind killer u will be debufed with it no matter how u try to avoid that. I cannot even imagine how you can abuse it in 6vs6, bg will drop guard and start chasing healls to tripple stack them istead of folowing his dps and defending targets? I have bg and never staked it once really cos i need to maintain whole cycle of buffs/dots+cc bursts. Basically u dont have time for that nonsense. /by dots i mean debuffs*

I get it, every person plays differently. You like to snare np(when the quality of players here are really low and most healers just stand still when they attacked by tank), you like to armor debuff target who have already low armor np, you want toughness reduce skil use when you have tons of passive toughness debuff around np. It shouldn't be a problem for you to change the mind killer skill if you don't use it often.

I'm playing every single class in this game, and this skill is currently most broken thing for me. Go try play order some randoms sc, and see how many outgoin heal debuffs is up on healers, and how they play.

[Absinth]

WL needs to invest here 14 Mastery points to get the same effect which lasts only 10 secs without the additionall willpower debuff and a cooldown of 10 sec.

Or WL can just slot axe with built in heal debuff and go unga bunga with AOE spreading heal debuff on everyone.

[akisnaakkeli]

WL needs to invest here 14 Mastery points to get the same effect which lasts only 10 secs without the additionall willpower debuff and a cooldown of 10 sec.

Or WL can just slot axe with built in heal debuff and go unga bunga with AOE spreading heal debuff on everyone.

Aoe Heal debuffs were removed and this Particular hurts Destro because DoK heal debuff was too good and bugged, so it procced from 24s dot and it should only proc from direct hits. Even after this was fixed it still was super powerful because 150 ft Devour Essence meant you can insta heal ally from 0 to 100 fast and at the same time Heal debuff them! Now this is gone RIP;/ Order only 25% Heal debuff proc is probably not a good idea either: D 2h Wp, Wl, IB and 2h slayer can have this proc on wpn. Destro has 0 or can choppa use one? If can why the fudge cant blorc use that same wpn like ib/slayer. And this 25% incoming healdebuff stacks to 75% With out/incoming HD Anyway all Order classes that can use 2h with this proc also have Heal debuff that stacks to 75% on healer class. And that is very powerful, if not and it doesnt matter why would it matter if procs in wpns were not gatekeeped?