SW - Powerful Draw is too much

[anarchypark]

The Healdebuff can also be cleansed, and must be reapplied, that can cost two GCD cause BHA needs to be reapplied too, you always need a ailment first, so to get to the point of doing damage there are two abilites in the risk of beeing dodged. You constantly need to use your healdebuff interrupting you capabilites of doing damage.

Regarding your 3k hp example.

You reach 4k damage easy within a two second timestamp with using arctiv blast, GB and ID and a first tick of hand of ruin (followed by 3 more ~1k hits from hor), your burst is done before the sw even has started to make damage, this is not even close to the max damage you can throw out with the complete rotation and there is no cleanse possible here.

With healdebuff the SW still needs to get lucky for a 4k 3sec burst and even then, if the healer can only bring 50% you will constantly working against these 50%, agains cleanse, against absorbs someone brings, about a guard that get swapt to your target.

Burst isn't everything, you need a HD on a good healed target, you need to pick a good target, but burst is essential, overall damage you do in a 20sec timespan is useless.

Well said. However, the current cleansing order is first in, first out. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my shatter test worked that way.
It should actually be first in, last out. (That's another story.)
BHA gets cleansed first unless there’s a double cleanse from two healers simultaneously,
in which case HD runs almost its full length.
If it’s cleansed by multiple healers, just reapply it.
When dealing with multiple interventions, it's safe to say that Aliments were applied from other sources, or other debuffs masked your HD.
In the worst-case scenario, if you have to reapply both DoTs, what’s stopping you? Just do it again instantly.

Regarding rotations, let’s say you’ve already used one rotation to reduce the enemy's HP to 3k.
You then need to wait 2-3 seconds to start over. SW doesn’t need to wait.

If I can add more variations: in the thick of battle, you might spot a healer with low HP right away.
If he notices the danger and runs to a safe spot, can you chase him?
That's when survivability can be used offensively.
Sorcs have one root, while SW has snare, pin, and assault stance.
Who has a better chance to dive in, score a kill, and safely back out?
Whether solo or in a group, the same variations negate each other. The difference lies in Sorc and SW.

Lastly, the overall damage you deal in a 20-second span is called pressure, especially when the battle lasts several minutes.
It drains the healer's AP.

I want Skirmish SW to be a more fun class to play and to fight against, not exploited by some players, especially for killing lowbies.

[agemennon675]

1. "Don't just compare burst and periodic damage numbers."
I mentioned 'burst' part first, but it seems everyone is fixated on it just because it's not visible in the screenshot.
What's alarming is that the damage output is this high even without burst.
All the damage in SW is amplified by HD. How much do you value HD?
Against an enemy with 3k HP remaining, quickly dealing 3.1k damage with HD can be more effective than taking the time to prepare for a burst 8k hit.
Sure, if the enemy heals to 6k HP, an 8k hit can still finish them off, but there's always a risk of being countered by cleanse or disrupt.
Didn’t I mention that Skirmish is less affected by cleanse and dodge? It feels like I'm repeating myself.

2. Efforts
Consider the efforts of a Sorc: building up mechanics, preparing the attack, hoping it bypasses disrupt, hoping it isn’t cleansed, and praying for a free cast.
Versus the efforts of an SW: 1-2-3, 3-2-3, 3-1-3, or simply spamming 1-2-3-1-2-3 while maneuvering.

3. It's Sorc ST build vs. SW ST build from Skirmish, which was designed for AoE.
How many warbands take AoE SW? Is it comparable to WL/Slayer/BW AoE?
Again, we need to first address whether all AoE DPS should be top-tier.
If you insist on that direction, let's see if SW AoE is effective.
If it isn’t working, it needs fixing.

Having multiple builds is good, but allowing the best DoT skill to spam with armor penetration isn’t.
The same goes for WL whirl’s armor penetration, but I digress.
That AoE has completely ruined the balance, and it's incredibly frustrating that the real problem still isn't being understood.
yet another story..

4. How confident are you about your survivability? You can't DPS while dead.
Everyone talks about the dangers of melee blobs, but suggesting using Skirmish in those AoE-heavy situation discourages its use.
The reliance on WW is too high. Instead, give more survivability through a range buff and make moral drain easier to use. I’ve explained all this before.

5. Don’t take the defensive Assault issue too seriously.
Considering every Assault SW is geared for MDPS, this will become a bigger issue than necessary.
If there were opportunities for gear exchange, perhaps... But I’ll stop here.

6. Since balance is interconnected, I can't ignore the run speed tactic.
They’ve reverted the goblin run speed tactic to not be disrupted by casting.
All run speeds should be canceled by casting, including SW’s.
We’ve already seen the consequences of not doing this. unkillable gobo.

Buffing all DPS damage leads to tank avoidance buffs, and when that’s not enough, healer buffs.
If everything is buffed to the top, what will new players face?
Don’t forget the power gap that existed when AoR declined.

"Against an enemy with 3k HP remaining, quickly dealing 3.1k damage with HD can be more effective than taking the time to prepare for a burst 8k hit." No its not, its a tab target pvp game, timestamp burst is more valuable and effective at killing targets than dots ticking with slow gcd

[Sever1n]

Here’s the problem:
I use Broadhead Arrow and Shadow Sting, two DoTs, and then shoot Spiral-Fletched Arrow. all Skirmish skills.
This combination is essentially the same as a sorc/BW's timed burst.

Man this where u started this mess with such words. Theres st specs and aoe wb dmg pressure specs. One focused on dealing maximum burst damage to key target, second to deal constant aoe pressure to blob. U dont give us any proofs of that ST specs of SW overperforming in burst, or that skirmish sw is king of aoe pressure among all aoe classes specs, but u claim its OP. Now u just post walls of text to justify OPnes of sw, and demand some random changes like swift strike speed boost or range increase that solve nothing and just bring more chaos, where people waiting for balance for years to finally enjoy their class at full.

Or u met some kiting guerilla sw in rvr in solo situation and died from 2 dots and spiral kite spam? Something like this https://youtu.be/3c8EuQpCx2M?si=1AXBbc_RoCASqJpa hapened so u create this post? That's solo kite build for rvr thats works only on solo players without healers, it can kite ant kill with constant dmg from dots spirals and instacast skills. You cannot mimic it in grouplay 6vs6, cos its all about bursting key targets. We cannot mimic it in wb tnx to permaslows. U dont give us any info abouth where OPness of skirmish start to shine, so i need to make assumptions.

For me, when i see sw on sc that spam spirals in blob its just in 95%cases is wasted space in team. But for skirm sw its job description. How do you think they shoud do dmg to heavy+mid armor without armpen? Or threath heals with armor talis? No u just demand to remove arp tactic. Why slays and chopass with 700+ws+ring buff on top+berserk not a concern, but tiny buffed skirmish is for some reasons deathmachine. I will be insane happy when Rolgrom fly on wings and start SW kiting warband, but even then hes entusiasm wasnt enough to compete with ungabunga melle meta, and 120 extra ws for skirm wont make any dif.

[anarchypark]

Why do you need burst in the first place? Because of healing.
HD reduce healing, so they partially take on the role of burst damage.
That’s the value of HD.

All other HD have CD. So if a SW handles the HD, other DPS don’t need to worry about it.
I've never seen HD assigned to another DPS when there's a SW around, unless both are handling it.

When I mentioned a run speed tactic, others might have naturally thought of Guerilla Training and Run Away!

Anyway, the key point is whether the decision-maker will choose damage or morale drain utility.

[Nekkma]

Why do you need burst in the first place? Because of healing.

Imo you mainly need burst to prevent enemy reactions such as guard swap, detaunt, defensive cds, pots, cc and prehealing. Healing debuff is more to get the kill if you fail to burst it down fast.

[anarchypark]

Why do you need burst in the first place? Because of healing.

Imo you mainly need burst to prevent enemy reactions such as guard swap, detaunt, defensive cds, pots, cc and prehealing. Healing debuff is more to get the kill if you fail to burst it down fast.

Yes, what I mentioned is just one of many values.
But as that burst damage increases, the reactions you listed become unnecessary. It’s understandable that players might focus on the best ultimate stat, but why is the game design also heading in that direction, making all other game elements redundant?

[Avernus]

Well, thats somewhat decent dps (not the best) for offtank. As dps, your SW isn't even worth dps slot.

SM vs dummy, no pots, event slot, stalwart stone used. Its more or less BiS, but with 2 not-dps tactics slotted (rugged+punt), no FO, obviously.

P.S. i do want SW +range tactic back and yes, i would trade this laughable +armorpen for it.

[zulnam]

You cannot use "dots" and "burst" in the same sentence; they are oxymorons. You can't burst someone down using dots.

The only case where this is viable is if you are hitting random blobs with little to no tanks or healers. Otherwise in a 24v24 city scenario SW will always underperform against BW or melee aoe DPS. Maybe a better option than aoe Engineer but after all the changes i'm not so sure.

Prior to SM's whispering winds changes you could objectively argue for getting an aoe SW in the warband for morale debuff. Now, not really.

And you can still have one in the warband and they can perform adequate given the gear and skill, but they are there purely because of social aspects (playing with friends) over optimal warband compositions.

If you think SW is a bit op as ranged aoe i suggest trying BW. You will be amazed.

[Everdin]

Well, thats somewhat decent dps (not the best) for offtank. As dps, your SW isn't even worth dps slot.

SM vs dummy, no pots, event slot, stalwart stone used. Its more or less BiS, but with 2 not-dps tactics slotted (rugged+punt), no FO, obviously.

P.S. i do want SW +range tactic back and yes, i would trade this laughable +armorpen for it.

Careful, his next post will be about SM burst!