Reduce the tankiness of healers and healer hybrids

[Zxul]

News flash- what makes healers hard to kill in scs is not personal tankiness. Its the fact that guard stacks with Challenge, and then you got Distracting Bellow. Healer can slot will everywhere, and you still won't kill one while doing 30% or less of your usual dps.

[salazarn]

News flash- what makes healers hard to kill in scs is not personal tankiness. Its the fact that guard stacks with Challenge, and then you got Distracting Bellow. Healer can slot will everywhere, and you still won't kill one while doing 30% or less of your usual dps.

Not at all. I do plenty of solo. You will need maybe 2 or 3 people to kill a solid healer depending on what you bring.

[Faction69]

Did you try to assist like any proper DD?

DPS full tuned into glass cannon single target should be able to threaten to kill a healer if given uptime

This game would fall apart instantly if one player could kill a good healer.

[Faction69]

News flash- what makes healers hard to kill in scs is not personal tankiness. Its the fact that guard stacks with Challenge, and then you got Distracting Bellow. Healer can slot will everywhere, and you still won't kill one while doing 30% or less of your usual dps.

Yeah the problem is little to do with healers and more to do with the other mitigation synergies classes have. And they're there for DPS too. You can't kill a guarded mdps either.

This game is simply balanced around massive scale combat where tools like guard and challenged are required to even survive for more than a second, but they are overpowering in smaller scale combat.

[Uchoo]

The problem is that willpower scales very poorly, and healers don't need to invest in it to heal sufficiently.

Willpower actually scales very well! However, you are correct that Healers don't need to stack it to do their job. The Healer classes are just well designed and have the tools to function without needing a 250 healing bonus, with maybe dok being an exception.

Healers DO need to build tanky to be able to function properly, the game without it would be sheer terror for them.

If you're having trouble killing a healer, I suggest learning about the different buffs and debuffs in the game such as armor and healing debuffs; assisting with another dps as a solo dps will rarely kill through detaunt (healers can usually only detaunt 1 person).

There are other considerations as well. In a 12 man, there are 4 healers who can all crossheal; in a full warband, there are 8. It can be a puzzle to learn how to defeat it but many have before you and you can too!

[Uchoo]

This game is simply balanced around massive scale combat where tools like guard and challenged are required to even survive for more than a second, but they are overpowering in smaller scale combat.

That's somewhat true, but much less so in the current meta, especially if you know the tools available. Killing through Guard is very possible in small scale. Sometimes the tanks even die to Guard damage.

I have a ton of examples of this on YT already but here's one:


Click here to watch on YouTube

3:46, Sorry I don't know how to timestamp.

[Uchoo]

News flash- what makes healers hard to kill in scs is not personal tankiness. Its the fact that guard stacks with Challenge, and then you got Distracting Bellow. Healer can slot will everywhere, and you still won't kill one while doing 30% or less of your usual dps.

Guard and Detaunt are 50% damage reductions that don't stack with each other; They both stack with both Challenge and Bellow.

65% damage reduction with Guard and Challenge, 82.5% with Bellow. Bellow only lasts 10 seconds and is a morale 3, just wait for it to end. If you hit the tank who challenged you 3 times, you will remove the stacks. Most classes have fast hitting attacks that can remove challenge quickly.

[Caduceus]

The Healer classes are just well designed and have the tools to function without needing a 250 healing bonus, with maybe dok being an exception.

I'm not sure if that is a hallmark of good design.

DPS can't stack defenses without gimping their damage. In fact, they need to squeeze out every bit of damage they can get in order to combat the tank/healer safety net, which leaves most DPS classes vulnerable and reliant on their teammates.

This goes for practically all DPS classes, but in 6v6 tanks function this way too, and tanks have to balance damage and survivability.

But that's how it should be, because it makes these players more reliant on personal skill and positioning to keep themselves safe.


Healers are exempt from this crucial risk-reward balance, and I have yet to hear a compelling reason for why that should be the case.

[Ysaran]

The problem is that willpower scales very poorly, and healers don't need to invest in it to heal sufficiently.

Willpower actually scales very well! However, you are correct that Healers don't need to stack it to do their job. The Healer classes are just well designed and have the tools to function without needing a 250 healing bonus, with maybe dok being an exception.

Healers DO need to build tanky to be able to function properly, the game without it would be sheer terror for them.

If you're having trouble killing a healer, I suggest learning about the different buffs and debuffs in the game such as armor and healing debuffs; assisting with another dps as a solo dps will rarely kill through detaunt (healers can usually only detaunt 1 person).

There are other considerations as well. In a 12 man, there are 4 healers who can all crossheal; in a full warband, there are 8. It can be a puzzle to learn how to defeat it but many have before you and you can too!

As far as I understand the OP play mainly solo and thus all this (reasonable) consideration are completely pointless. He plays WH so the situation he talking about is the following: he stealth, open on a healer with KD, healer doesn't die, healer get up, healer detaunt and self heal, healer give him the middle finger and run. In all this guard, challenge, assist and so on play no role

[Keula]

Healers are exempt from this crucial risk-reward balance, and I have yet to hear a compelling reason for why that should be the case.

Well how would you solve it? Like the "investment" part is only talis and RR, so you'd just trash healer base stats/gear stats to be worse than everyone elses because 700+ WP(or str in the case shield healers E: also meaning including base stats) and 20 or so healcrit from gear alone is too much in your opinion or what?