Remove SM/BO punt from stances.

[Farrul]

All tanks classes would have singletarget- punts in their core toolkit, it was the premise that led to them being added in the first place.

The problem is that these punts are punishing the rotations of SM/BO whilst all the other tank classes only have to pay a global cooldown, then as an added burden they feel extremely clumsy to use in the heat of the battles and will definitely not encourage players to learn this basic tank functionality when trying out these two classes, quite the opposite.

If singletarget punts are supposedly a necessity for tanks to performing their role, then tying them to stance mechanic feels too taxing & cumbersome to use.
Banish darkness on Kotbs is fun utility and encourages tanks to use punts. With Hoeth's Tempest it is the exact opposite, i feel i never want to play with it.

As with other tank basic tools, guard, challenge, taunt, pretty much every punt on all the other tank classes, these new punts should be off the stance mechanic and only punishes SM/BO players as long as they remain tied to stances.

Hoeth's Tempest & Git Out Fer Gud have a higher opportunity cost than the equivalent tactics of other tank classes, hence they are actually inferior.

[Everdin]

IB punt is also punishing and not there on demand, a bo/sm can at least jump to the correct stance while IB has to buildup grudge somehow

[Gladiolix]

I would suggest either remove the stance requirement or remove the tactic requirement. At least the BO (don't know about SM one) punt still would have the extra downside of being waaayy too vertical, targets punted land right next to you after visiting the stratosphere.

[Farrul]

IB punt is also punishing and not there on demand, a bo/sm can at least jump to the correct stance while IB has to buildup grudge somehow

With the IB its more about the general problem of slow grudge regeneration than the punt itself, however it performces smooth as expected from tank punt. SM/BO is just cumbersome and at times counterintuitive to use, i'd take IB punt everyday of the week( have them both bis rr 85+)

[Farrul]

I would suggest either remove the stance requirement or remove the tactic requirement. At least the BO (don't know about SM one) punt still would have the extra downside of being waaayy too vertical, targets punted land right next to you after visiting the stratosphere.

At least if the tactic is removed and effect made integral with the basic skill now you could argue its just part of the class mechanic, i think that's fair. So i agree although i would prefer it if they just removed them from stances, it would be a better player experience overall.

They wanted to copy the other tank punt/ tactic( more specifically Chosen/Kotbs effects ) but somehow did not consider how inferior it will be when tied to stance mechanics, which is probably the worst class mechanic in the entire game among all the classes regardless of archetype( otherwise why create similar effects?).

P.S. Not blaming ror team for that, obviously original Mythic devs fault glanced at WoW warriors stances without realizing why it worked well in that game.

[Farrul]

IB punt is also punishing and not there on demand, a bo/sm can at least jump to the correct stance while IB has to buildup grudge somehow

Actually on a second note, you are completely wrong about this.

IB punt is there on demand in pretty much every situation except solo roaming since gaining grudges lightning fast in a group/large scale situation is a none- issue. I use my IB mostly for roaming and have this mindset, hence why i even mentioned grudge regeneration as an issue. IB punt is therefore not punishing at all unless you solo roam. Furthermore IB punt does not require a tactic to lower the cd or to increase the range, i.e IB punt is superior to the inferior SM/BO ones.

To summerize tank punts:

S tier:
BG: Super punt with longest range, requires no tactic, smooth application ( Considered OP)

A tier:
IB: Costs grudges, requires no tactic. smooth application. 10s cd applies to SnB as well.

Chosen/kotbs : Requires tactic, smooth application.

B iter:

C tier:
SM/BO: (1)requires stance dancing. unsmooth application(1). High opportunity cost (1). requires tactic.

[Everdin]

You are starting the fight always without the possibility to kick, in situations were you engage and enemy and are not directly targeted you are not able to react fast. You need to have a OF in fight, need to be in fight yourself or at least have grudge tactic equipt.

Kotbs/Chosen: Hello foes, here is my punt!

clearly same tier

[Farrul]

As already explained, in small scale to a certain extent, since in small scale IB does require a grudge regeneration tactic.

However that still leaves the mechanic of stance dancing which an ironbreaker does not have to deal with. The high opportunity cost that comes with it(extra gcd's, missed best stance skill opportunity, general annoynce of it). In large - scale situations the IB punt is just plain superior and only second to BG one(arguably, if we're talking 2H or SnB).

Same tier? Nop not even close. BO/SM is just poorly implemented, at the very least if they want to tie-it to a cumbersome mechanic it should not have to require a tactic, like the IB.

P.S. IB was buffed recently to change grudge generation to a 0.5 gcd from damage, it feels much better, if their is an Oath friend around the ability to punt on demand is just going to be there just a few seconds after the battle begins or even before it does if it involves taking ranged damage, no matter the situaton the swordmaster and blackorc can never circumvent their mechanic like an IB can ( in many ways IB can abuse this, oathfriend has 160 ft range). The only exception is in absolute solo roaming or rather a 1vs1 situation against another melee class.