Covenant of Celerity

[Sever1n]

Devs i beg of you rework this mechanic. No amount of words will help to describe how toxic it is. Autosnares on any dmg sourse for whole group, where other clases have 10 sec cd on snare or dont have at all is beyound unfair. Ranged snares on axe throws, that literaly give no space for kite or reposition. In wb play it ruins all movement for order just on automode. For classes that dont have antisnare any prock of this is automatic red alert, its ruins any atempt of chasing destro and turn you into kitebale slow training dummy. I create this post coz this where bugging me for years, and i dont unsderstand why order as side ignore such toxic gap in balance. Pls just go ingame log any order and check how many procks of celerity u will get i just casual rvr or sc, and realise how bad, unfair and gamechanging this skill is.

[Rydiak]

100%

Proc damage keeps getting nerfed while proc snaring doesn't. It boggles the mind how strong the passive, constantly-reapplied snare of CoC is while all other AoE/multi-target snares have been gutted. Order cannot deliberately slow melee blobs while Destro just does it passively. The snare changes were not a good idea and should have been reverted months ago.

[leftayparxoun]

I'm being perfectly honest as a Destro player since Live in asking this:
Is it REALLY that big of a deal?
Destro is never discussing about CoC except for when Order players are complaining about it. To me it seems like something taken for granted. A faction specific difference that no one puts too much thought into. I would imagine that people don't even have a strong opinion about it existing or getting removed (the snare portion of the ability).

What baffles me even more though is why Order is so up in arms about it. How disruptive is that 20% (or 35%) chance to slow?
Feel free to correct me on this analysis made in 10 minutes total. But here is how it looks to me from the non-receiving end

• Massive rvr (wb+ v wb+): Constantly applied to order frontline. Makes Destruction a bit more mobile and leads to both factions playing according to their strengths; mobility and cc for Destro, static formations and sustain for Order

• wb v wb (e.g. City): Happens a lot currently due to the META. It also again plays into the differences of both factions. Destro can move around faster to find vulnerabilities to exploit, while Order has the tools to counter that if they don't

• 6 v 6 (e.g. ranked, scenarios): Even if it's present (dok is a popular class but doesn't always make it in) it doesn't seem disruptive to me. People stay and fight. With small numbers and less prevalence of mindless AOE attacks, conditional 20% slow is not a deciding factor for the outcome of the battle (people don't need to run away)

• oRvR small scale : Again, it's not guaranteed to affect fights there (doks are not always present). If CoC is there, then again I don't see a problem unless people feel the need to run away/kite. Is it really a problem that Destro can (potentially) slow from range? Or is the actual issue that Order feels the need to play ranged to compete in small scale. To me it looks like people who complain about CoC are mainly playing ranged classes or participate mainly in ranged comps (BWs, SWs, Engis, dps/hybrid AMs and co.) and dislike that their method of playing can be somewhat countered by CoC. Nothing is without counterplay is this game. The same classes are (imo) perfectly viable in small scale just by altering their playstyle (Bomb BW, aSW, Tinkerer Engi, proper heal AMs).

• solo small scale: Here both factions have it rough when it comes to escaping. The difference lies in the way it happens; Order can dismount people from much further away than Destro due to the SW instant cast abilities, while Destro has shorter range but has a 20%(35%) chance to also slow you if there is a Dok in a party. Order will win the Marathon when chasing Destro (due to dismount), while Destro will win the 100m race when Chasing order (due to slow). I really do not see a significant difference. Perhaps if both factions are playing near their warcamp the whole time then Destro has a small advantage. Then again, that's a decision on playstyle. Not balance.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm missing something. I just don't understand it. At which content is CoC so unfair?

[Sever1n]

Is it REALLY that big of a deal?

Yes.

[Paxsanarion]

Its been a big deal for years, every veteran player knows this.....or should know this regardless of which faction you enjoy. Play Order for any serious length of time and you will understand The way in which it works for every player in a group with this effect running and the ease with which it procs and the range in which it can proc "passively" resulting in 100% uptime in large battles is simple unfair if we are talking about reducing snare effects in this new balancing phase.

viewtopic.php?t=52340

[Gargis]

COC is a very big deal and in concert with Line Breaker tactic, there is nothing that Order tanks to keep the back line protected.

ST snares on Kn/Chosen and SM/BO are equal. AE snare on IB/BG close enough.
Not equal, COC + Line Breaker!

It gets worse, even with Swift Runes on RP, with the AE cleave by mdps, order tanks will always be snared much more than Destro tanks so they can't assist the back line.

The change to REA, killed that tactic. Worse the only asymmetric counter Order had to COC was Slice through and that tactic is destroyed now. It is beyond foolish to pick it up, only the have your ST snare on 10s CD. Less up time and one cleanse by Destro and you are in a worse spot.

Playing a healer and tank on Order now is horrible.

[Vaul]

...

Please feel free to correct me if I'm missing something. I just don't understand it. At which content is CoC so unfair?

So, sorry for snipping your quote first of all.

I think the scenario you are missing is when the engagement is "unbalanced", in either direction.

E.g. an Order group or Warband encounters a bigger/stronger group than itself and really needs to turn/kite/reposition/whatever to get into a better position to engage - they can't. They get quickly snared from range and lose players.

Reverse situation too: Order group encounters a destro group it wants to engage and fight - the destro group can just walk out.

That's how I see it anyway. It limits the terms of engagement.

[Aluviya]

100%

Proc damage keeps getting nerfed while proc snaring doesn't. It boggles the mind how strong the passive, constantly-reapplied snare of CoC is while all other AoE/multi-target snares have been gutted. Order cannot deliberately slow melee blobs while Destro just does it passively. The snare changes were not a good idea and should have been reverted months ago.

To be fair the snare was even 10 sec's before. So there has been a nerf. But I fully agree with you - procs have a very big impact and giving a proc a damage and a debuff component is just plainly broken. And the impact here goes beyond what the obvious is. Especially from the PoV of a Healer I can sum up: it is also an additional debuff that covers other debuffs and practically is, as it was said, with a 100 % uptime. Considering that AM can't even cleanse a Curse, RP can only cleanse 1 Target and WP has to invest into AoE Clense - but would yet have a hard time as its reapplied the very next gcd - it's pretty clear from this aspect that there is nothing compareable on order side that has a similar impact against destru.

[Setariiii]

Is it REALLY that big of a deal?

Yes.

No it is not, 20% Reduced movement speed at a 20% trigger for the Base covenant is not OP.
And the Problem you are thinking of is the "DoK" is a highly specified Covenant DPS DoK that has given up 2 Tactic slots to do what you say... i don't know any WB on Destro that even takes in DPS DoK's beacuse they need then for Group Healing!
Meanwhile the last patch gave the DoK a approx 20% Heal Reduction!

Can can you point out some real problems instead? Archmages Bleed dot that is OP, amongst other things with Archmages.. Shadow Warriors that are so far above Squigherders you need binoculars to even see the Shadowarrior! The Duble/Perma stun from White Lions?
Or how about the Warrior Priest(?) Shield that seems to be bugged atm that gives Immunity to everything? Stuns, Snares, Punts, Pulls, etc...

If it bothers you so much, run a party with 2-3 WP's so they can have the Shield up 90% of the time until this Nerfing of Destro Cykel has ended and 3 things on Order side gets corrected..

[Bozzax]

Yes please remove it and afterwards we remove order +15% heals from kniggit or the SM 2million+ healing in large scale and the BW strong procs from tacty etc (these are way more impactful)