State of Mdps 6emn squad for ORDER

[Zxul]

And yet they have big source of arp from tactic, unlike what you posted.

For 2 aoe skills, dont try to twist my words. If u see lion as spin to win 2button presser, than i dunno really what to discuss.
If u cant see dif between 2h chosen that auto reduse resistance and have spamable sprit st dmg and channel and compare it to to dot elemental staking of knight than again, i dont undestand in what world you live. Knight is the phys dmg dealer and only tank without armor shred for it, compared to bg and bork.
I feel destro vibes on forum against lions, so start your complains with comparing their dmg and maras. Only then start usnig words "OP", "Nerf". From what i saw they equal.

I quoted your words, so apparently directly quoting your words is twisting them, nice.

Knight isn't full physical dmg dealer, unlike the bg, if you ain't using the elemental dot stacking you doing dps on kotb wrong. Chosen also isn't all nonphysical dmg dealer- aa remains physical, which contributes a lot of the dmg, lot of abilities which chosen will always use are physical as well. You won't kill anyone as chosen by just spamming Ravage and Relentless with tactic.

Kotb isn't the only physical dmg dealer without armor debuff- see chosen above. Also this is yet another reply where you for some reason chose to ignore that bg- unlike kotb, a full physical dmg dealer- doesn't has a ws self buff, which kotb does.

Anyway lets stop derailing the thread, if you feel kotb is underpowered make a new thread about it, you will get there all the replies which you need.

As for wl compared to mara, once again wrong, mara doesn't has a front loaded burst comparable to wl.

[Sever1n]

And yet they have big source of arp from tactic, unlike what you posted.

For 2 aoe skills, dont try to twist my words. If u see lion as spin to win 2button presser, than i dunno really what to discuss.
If u cant see dif between 2h chosen that auto reduse resistance and have spamable sprit st dmg and channel and compare it to to dot elemental staking of knight than again, i dont undestand in what world you live. Knight is the phys dmg dealer and only tank without armor shred for it, compared to bg and bork.
I feel destro vibes on forum against lions, so start your complains with comparing their dmg and maras. Only then start usnig words "OP", "Nerf". From what i saw they equal.

I quoted your words, so apparently directly quoting your words is twisting them, nice.

There wasn direct quoting at all. U refrase my words about lions arp. I was talking about his st capabilities. Tactic works only on 2 skills of arsenal, but you try to show like lion have free 25% arp for everything.

Wh have elemental staking skill, it makes his main sourse of dmg elemental? Same with kotbs. They both work with armor, chosens work mainly with spirit resist. Thats big dif in team comp that only one tank have armorshred on ordet, which why lion shines in st comps.

Before acusations in numbers of WL and maras go find best lion and best mara that perfectly know their rotations, go dummies, and then post results. Then we will have something to discuss. Actually that 1rs thing that should be in such post - proofs.

[Sever1n]

But the class brings so much (more than any other class when you look at CC utility and damage). When comparing it to other class from the faction you understand that it brings so much.

Im watching on maras with copy of all lions goodies, and on top of that some specific, stuff like morale stop, mass cd, channeling with buff cleancing, even ap drains and understand oposite of your point of view. Then il recall words of best Lion in our guild, when he reroled mara "they have all".

When you making such claims you open path for destro 200 pages of bias like it already started, cos thier main focus after slayer murder now is lion. Pls make research first in comparison of his mirror (not the order dps), and show us result. Working class shouldnt be nerfed just becouse hes works, its every class should be working, then we can speak about balance.

[Adelmar]

On the ASW portion of the thread, I would just parrot what Ashoris said. ASW feels strong in many aspects but mid to weak in others, which is what balance should look like on all classes/specs imo.

I believe even simply adding BHA and the AA proc back to assault stance would do a lot towards bringing the spec back to a better place. And as OP said, making Whirling Pin actually work consistently would be huge.

My 2 cents.

[Vibax]

@zxul & @severi thx to keep on poluting that topic with thing that have nothing to do with what the post was made about, I hope those messages can be deleted cause irrelevent to the topic and just 2 people going back and forth on offtopic tanks shred ....

@severi, this post was made to make a comparison to class and spec on ORDER. The problem is when you wanna touch someone class they have to defend it no matter what even with arguments that are irrelevent. I thaught your argument about AP was interesting but didnt felt like this was a majeur issue for the class and other class can exp the same issue ...
And now your bringing mara to the topic -_-'
We get it you think your WL is just fine and shouldnt be touch on.
Do you really think that it is fine to have a class with so much tools compare to his fellow order Mdps ? Should we have all Mdps having almost everything in the kit ?
At least I feel like the feedbacks from ASW r interesting and give good insight of the class.
We don't have to agree on everything this is the point of using the forum but at least try to stay within the topic of the post, or make your own post once again about buffing KOTBS so they get an armor debuff or buff every other dps so they get has many tools has WL ...

[Sever1n]

@Vibax im not defending MY lion. I didnt play lion dunno maybe 2 years. Im defending class of order that acused without any actual proofs. Im interested only in finding truth.

Your topic called "state of mdps 6emn squad for order". So before u start trow acusations in poluting and derailing i need to inform you that kotbs is part of 6man squad and he affect state of dps. So no derailing here, that just how discussion goes.

[Acidic]

Without going too far into specific classes etc I believe that WL is a better raw number generator with high mobility and a ton of toys in his basket, a reasonable chunk of that comes from proc , have not a good feel of the patch effects on the damage yet, so some of its raw damage was a bit clipped.
As for difference Mara versus WL , have both and play both, WL does more damage and is better at finishing due to instant leap vs channel pull. But this is where I’d impact is in favor of the Mara.
In short it’s not to me obvious which is better overall but I would go with in small group WL ,

But ignoring the Mara WL discution it is without a doubt a need to have classes closer in effectiveness to have variety for the health of the game. Slayer is still a good dps , in some places better than WL but that WL is over represented in warband setup is a problem for the game where more classes should be viable so the game can include more ppl and play styles .
In conclusion one class should not shine too much over another and one side should not shine more than another and players should not try defending their playstyle or toon

[Akalukz]

Honestly, the biggest advantage of the WL is the front-loaded damage, either as an opener or cleaner, it is unequaled in DPS by anything on Destr,o primarily due to the high damage from 2hand weapons. Don't base this on solo play; it is not a solo game. Spike damage is what kills for the most part. WL are kings of the spike in mele. Just 2 coppers worth of my opinion which we all have differing ones.

EDIT" some of the recent changes may see WL damage draw back, but not sure since it will be an equal nerf to both mara and wl (and solo bw/sorc)

[Ashoris]

I cant really follow the conclusion. The WL in 6 man at a certain level plays with 3 tactics.
not to mention everything else like buggy pet and pathing ....

So yeah you are repeting what I said about the tactics and the buggy pet, yet WL out perform every other ST Mdps order has.

I thought we talking about 6vs6 ....
The only part where the WL outshines other DPS in 6v6 is when bad grps fight eacht other. The WL overperforms in PUGplay and because of his really high floor.

But as soon as a certain "skill level" (i mean tactics teamplay - groupllay) is involved the WL is far away from overperforming. I am not sure where your view comes from but it does not sound like a full view on the 6man PvP.

[Vibax]

@Severi I know that tanks and healers are part of the team and what they bring is important, but when it come down to form a squad your not comparing the dps slot with your tank slot, you might want make them work together the best but still, your comparing dps with other dps and that is the point of this topic here.

@Ashoris I agree with you on the part that WL are the best at pug stomping. But I also think that WL has a secure slot if your planing the best squad possible for ST partys in citys, or GvG or wanna get the best out of your squad during some events.
I would be curious to see what duo's of dps you would concidere the best.
Due to Armor debuff and great CC's I would just say that the best paired dps for any class but WL is WL.
My point is that if your an ASW your best partner is a WL, if your a WH your best partner is WL, 2hSL same story etc.
Truth is if your class lacks mobility having fetch + range root and ways to stick to the target is very important.
Every Mdps is dealing mainly phys damage so having that massiv armor debuff will just be a very strong tool for the other dps and your tanks aw (outside of Spirit SM's, wich still benefit of armor debuff for AA with bloodlord weap, but to a lesser extend).