Aoe Cap feedback after playing with it

[Kaeldrick]

At the cost of loosing smaller and more hardcore teams? Why is it a good thing?

If I follow that logic, since I can't deal with high population when playing the underdog faction, I will just join the zerg and it will end in PvDoors.

The state of oRvR right now is Zerg vs Zerg or Zerg vs EmptyKeeps. Is this OK?

In addition to this, many oldass players will quit, including wb/guild leaders and server will lose a lot of knowledge and experience.

[Kaeldrick]

With 24 cap most common gameplay were mara run aoe kd all and the fight is over within 2 gcds.
Not a fan of this gameplay.
I like 9 man cap but we need more zerg busting tools and most importantly change if bos to matter more and to make ppl split so u never build zerg cos u lose the map

Why do you allow 1 Mara to aoe KD your whole team? Control the Mara, kill him or avoid this with a strategy

[wonshot]

Problem is everyone that wants the changes back to 24 are used to instagibbing other groups, now they can't, and they are mad. This is a good change for the game, fights are more fun for pug's casuals, that is exactly who we should be thinking about.

Can we please keep "speculatings about other players mindset" out of a feedback post? Please.

This topic is about, wether or not the intented change to aoe cap is making the intented outnumbered situations better or worse.
There was, and will continue to be a foodchain wether it goes back to 24cap or 9cap. This change was a test to attempt to improve the outnumbered situations in orvr.

[Kaeldrick]

Reminder :
The first change from 9-12 to 24 was made to to improve the outnumbered situations in orvr.
So again, I agree with you Bombling, I can't see any logic in this rollback, because it IS a rollback on a previous and better implemented solution.

Do you guys from dev team hold an history of changes or something like this? It can be very helpful with software maintenance.

[Rotgut]

9 aoe cap didn't help smaller numbers because we weren't given more tools. There is nothing to build towards inside a fight, no big synergies and no morales that will wipe a frontline, so the only viable plays happen before a fight start - kiting or blobbing.

I think the people arguing that it did help play timezones where you can get a 24v24 fight, cuz in those cases yeah, the cap reduction did make things more fun. But If we can't have a oRvR revamp that will encourage more WBvWB fights, in which a 9 aoe cap would be great, then continuing with the reduced cap without giving us extra tools will reduce the amount of fights happening, and that is not fun.

As for making things fun for pugs, thats just not true. Just look at pop numbers. Old Rampage and Old GTDC made things fun for pugs, cuz they were busted spells that made the player immediately feel strong and impactful. And since pugs can't kite, their only option now is to take fights in a blob and that doesn't have the same dopamine rush as big spells.

[Akalukz]

Problem is everyone that wants the changes back to 24 are used to instagibbing other groups, now they can't, and they are mad. This is a good change for the game, fights are more fun for pug's casuals, that is exactly who we should be thinking about.

Can we please keep "speculatings about other players mindset" out of a feedback post? Please.

This topic is about, wether or not the intented change to aoe cap is making the intented outnumbered situations better or worse.
There was, and will continue to be a foodchain wether it goes back to 24cap or 9cap. This change was a test to attempt to improve the outnumbered situations in orvr.

It 100% improves it, primarily because you now have time to react since you are generally speaking no longer instakilled. Can a 6 man do it vs 48, no, and quite frankly they shouldn't be able to. But can an 18 or 24 vs 48 recover? Yes I believe so, can they do so against equally skilled oponents, no, and again they shouldn't.

Sorry if that first came off as a personal attack, it wasn't to be directed specifically, but in general i stand by the statement. Just as others have said the only people liking this change are pugs and casuals. Pugs and casual players don't want to instantly die, not in ORvR and not in Scenarios. Game has too long been anti-pug/casual, and now it's starting to show as the population continues to dwindle.

[Rotgut]

It 100% improves it, primarily because you now have time to react since you are generally speaking no longer instakilled.

React and do what? Give me a play that can happen.

[Kaeldrick]

Problem is everyone that wants the changes back to 24 are used to instagibbing other groups, now they can't, and they are mad. This is a good change for the game, fights are more fun for pug's casuals, that is exactly who we should be thinking about.

Can we please keep "speculatings about other players mindset" out of a feedback post? Please.

This topic is about, wether or not the intented change to aoe cap is making the intented outnumbered situations better or worse.
There was, and will continue to be a foodchain wether it goes back to 24cap or 9cap. This change was a test to attempt to improve the outnumbered situations in orvr.

It 100% improves it, primarily because you now have time to react since you are generally speaking no longer instakilled. Can a 6 man do it vs 48, no, and quite frankly they shouldn't be able to. But can an 18 or 24 vs 48 recover? Yes I believe so, can they do so against equally skilled oponents, no, and again they shouldn't.

Sorry if that first came off as a personal attack, it wasn't to be directed specifically, but in general i stand by the statement. Just as others have said the only people liking this change are pugs and casuals. Pugs and casual players don't want to instantly die, not in ORvR and not in Scenarios. Game has too long been anti-pug/casual, and now it's starting to show as the population continues to dwindle.

No, you can't believe that man... Please try yourself to win with a 12-15 against a 24 now with 9 target cap. As Bombling underlined it many and many times it's all about mitigation (from Challenges) and avoidance (from HTL).

A 12-15 has 5 tanks at most, a 24 has 8 of them. So, geometry and maths : your challenges will get drained by enemy tanks + leader (maybe 1 or 2 mdd will be challenged) meanwhile enemy challenges will affect everyone in your team except healers (if positioning is good). Conclusion : you won't mitigate almost at all enemy dmg when they will and in addition to that, your offesive skills will hit 9 targets... here again tanks will take the biggest part of it.

Actually, it's fine to suppose and believe things but it's better to test yourself and know what's actually happening.

By the way, lowering the difficulty of a game never improved anyone's skills and speaking about this server, pugs and casuals are not the core of this server's community. Without a strong core, this project will just collapse.

[Akalukz]

It 100% improves it, primarily because you now have time to react since you are generally speaking no longer instakilled.

React and do what? Give me a play that can happen.

Recover, over the past couple of weeks i have been involved in "prolonged" wb v wb or 18v24+ fights where we would have been absolutely wiped pre 9 AOE cap but were able to get a few key rezzes or guard swaps and able to turn the table completely or hold off long enough for others to join in the fight. I understand that there are EU issues with 150 v 150 players in praag, but that is a player issue as much as any other, because there are at least 2 open zones and 2 ends of each zone, instead of critical mass at one point.

Last night during NA we had this happen 2-3 times, the ability to turn the tables due to discord and leadership, where 24AOE would have wiped us all in first encounter.

As I said, you won't hear many besides pug/casuals saying it's a good thing but look at how active ORvR is becoming again... simply because people live a little longer and can actually contribute to a fight for more than 3-5 seconds. I am all for giving some tools (at a cost) to allow zerg busting, but they need to be at a high cost, either in renown points or mastery points.

Look at who is complaining about it, they are all great players without a doubt, but they want their cake and eat it too. With some tweaks to challenge / morales / heal debuffs or a combination thereof and you will see a very competitive ORvR. Especially if they put in some importance to the BFO and other parts of the map.

[Akalukz]

Can we please keep "speculatings about other players mindset" out of a feedback post? Please.

This topic is about, wether or not the intented change to aoe cap is making the intented outnumbered situations better or worse.
There was, and will continue to be a foodchain wether it goes back to 24cap or 9cap. This change was a test to attempt to improve the outnumbered situations in orvr.

It 100% improves it, primarily because you now have time to react since you are generally speaking no longer instakilled. Can a 6 man do it vs 48, no, and quite frankly they shouldn't be able to. But can an 18 or 24 vs 48 recover? Yes I believe so, can they do so against equally skilled oponents, no, and again they shouldn't.

Sorry if that first came off as a personal attack, it wasn't to be directed specifically, but in general i stand by the statement. Just as others have said the only people liking this change are pugs and casuals. Pugs and casual players don't want to instantly die, not in ORvR and not in Scenarios. Game has too long been anti-pug/casual, and now it's starting to show as the population continues to dwindle.

No, you can't believe that man... Please try yourself to win with a 12-15 against a 24 now with 9 target cap. As Bombling underlined it many and many times it's all about mitigation (from Challenges) and avoidance (from HTL).

A 12-15 has 5 tanks at most, a 24 has 8 of them. So, geometry and maths : your challenges will get drained by enemy tanks + leader (maybe 1 or 2 mdd will be challenged) meanwhile enemy challenges will affect everyone in your team except healers (if positioning is good). Conclusion : you won't mitigate almost at all enemy dmg when they will and in addition to that, your offesive skills will hit 9 targets... here again tanks will take the biggest part of it.

Actually, it's fine to suppose and believe things but it's better to test yourself and know what's actually happening.

By the way, lowering the difficulty of a game never improved anyone's skills and speaking about this server, pugs and casuals are not the core of this server's community. Without a strong core, this project will just collapse.

We did last night and for several nights over the past span of days, it is possible to recover, get away from the zerg and find out. Pugs and casuals are the life blood of this server, the quicker someone realizes taht the better. Otherwise rank 6v6 and cities would be all the rage....which they aren't.

Quit burning key skills (challenge / KD / Stun) on contact, have your tanks push into the line and the challenge, quit challenging tanks wait till you are past them, its not a hard concept, and only takes 1-2 tanks to do it. It's a meta change, change is good.

EDIT: To add, 12-15 vs 24. If all things are equal they shouldn't win, because all things equal, its when skill/gear/tactics/leadership prevails that they will win. IE against pug wbs. If you are a "premade guild" wb and lose 15v 24-man pug, you probably need to look at some things. Discord alone should give an advantage.