[Witch Elf] Bloordlord Weapon Attack Speed

[germ32]

I'd like to start conversation around possibly revising some of the weapon speeds of the current blood lord weapons available to Witch Elves.

Currently each of the 3 available blood lord weapons all have the same attack speed and more or less the same stats (with some slight variance in strength / melee power etc.) and all have 2.5s attack speed.

What I would like to see is for there to be some variation in the attack speed of the blood lord weapons available as what is currently available are essentially just re-skins of the same weapon. The sentinel weapons for witch elves have much more variance in terms of speed, ranging from 1.5s to 2.7s and I would like to see the same for blood lord weapons.

From a balance perspective I think it would be fair for witch elves to have a 3.2s attack speed weapon become available, as slower weapons are available to other melee dps classes (witch hunters included).

I understand that thematically this seems like a pretty slow attack speed for a dagger, but slower weapons are just better for dealing burst damage and I'd like to have at least one BiS weapon that has a slower speed than 2.5s as our fortress dagger also only has a 2.4s attack speed.


TLDR: Can witch elves get some variance in the speeds of our blood lord weapons with both slow and fast options?

[Lisutaris]

From a balance perspective I think it would be fair for witch elves to have a 3.2s attack speed weapon become available, as slower weapons are available to other melee dps classes (witch hunters included).

TLDR: Can witch elves get some variance in the speeds of our blood lord weapons with both slow and fast options?

Mhhh... actually, yes. Pretty much everything true. There are 4.0 Pistols and because of how AA and offhand swings/attacks are working WE is worse off compared to WH.
WHs also have an AA haste tactic of 50% which should have around perma uptime as on WE if played well. So yeah, AA offhand proc swings on WH are better than on WE.

I am wondering why no post like this has already been made in the past.

[akisnaakkeli]

Regarding Weapons and how to add power to low lvl gear. https://imgur.com/a/YmzhjoZ

That blorc screenshot is taken today. Glad that i can run around in empty 1.4.8 : D

[germ32]

Regarding Weapons and how to add power to low lvl gear. https://imgur.com/a/YmzhjoZ

That blorc screenshot is taken today. Glad that i can run around in empty 1.4.8 : D

Respectfully, this is a bit irrelevant. If you could please keep the discussion related to the original topic I would appreciate it thanks.

[germ32]

Bumping... I would like to see if this can gain some traction because I think this is a fair request.

Recently I've been doing some more testing with slower mainhand weapons, in particular with Brugg's Cutter -- a level 31 dagger with 41 dps and 3.6 attack speed.

Despite the difference in dps, auto attack damage increases by about 200 (up from ~450 to 630 on a non-crit mainhand swing against a target dummy) per hit between a mainhand dagger with 3.6 attack speed and 41 dps vs a dagger with 54 dps and 2.5 attack speed. This is while using the fortress dagger as an offhand

In certain scenarios this is a more desirable outcome if for example you are trying to burst a target, or you hit a target and then get punted and are not able to auto attack them for the amount of time that it takes you to get back in range of them (this happens a lot). If it wasn't for the lack of crit chance and stats on Brugg's cutter I would use it

I understand for all of you defensive spec players that rely on procs, that slower attack speed may not be desirable but I do think it is beneficial to players that do not use witchbrew.

All I'm requesting is for WEs to have a 3.2s attack speed bloodlord dagger like all other mdps classes. SWs have a bow that has 4.2s attack speed for god sake

[Sinisterror]

Bumping... I would like to see if this can gain some traction because I think this is a fair request.

Recently I've been doing some more testing with slower mainhand weapons, in particular with Brugg's Cutter -- a level 31 dagger with 41 dps and 3.6 attack speed.

Despite the difference in dps, auto attack damage increases by about 200 (up from ~450 to 630 on a non-crit mainhand swing against a target dummy) per hit between a mainhand dagger with 3.6 attack speed and 41 dps vs a dagger with 54 dps and 2.5 attack speed. This is while using the fortress dagger as an offhand

In certain scenarios this is a more desirable outcome if for example you are trying to burst a target, or you hit a target and then get punted and are not able to auto attack them for the amount of time that it takes you to get back in range of them (this happens a lot). If it wasn't for the lack of crit chance and stats on Brugg's cutter I would use it

I understand for all of you defensive spec players that rely on procs, that slower attack speed may not be desirable but I do think it is beneficial to players that do not use witchbrew.

All I'm requesting is for WEs to have a 3.2s attack speed bloodlord dagger like all other mdps classes. SWs have a bow that has 4.2s attack speed for god sake

Back when Sac Stab added 50% AA dmg with 5 finishers for 10s i used Consolidatas or something inf wpn 3.7speed 33 dps and got 1900 AA Crit on Dummy. I really want the AA dmg back now, its insane that no one was (including me) using it because 50% armour pene or witchbrew was too good, but both are nerfed enough that i would happily use sac stab on welf with aa dmg incr. With the AA dmg buff ive done 1200 AA's with 2.8s Speed 800 armour debuff wpn on light armored targets and i was rr 50-60

[Krima]

Bumping... I would like to see if this can gain some traction because I think this is a fair request.

Recently I've been doing some more testing with slower mainhand weapons, in particular with Brugg's Cutter -- a level 31 dagger with 41 dps and 3.6 attack speed.

Despite the difference in dps, auto attack damage increases by about 200 (up from ~450 to 630 on a non-crit mainhand swing against a target dummy) per hit between a mainhand dagger with 3.6 attack speed and 41 dps vs a dagger with 54 dps and 2.5 attack speed. This is while using the fortress dagger as an offhand

In certain scenarios this is a more desirable outcome if for example you are trying to burst a target, or you hit a target and then get punted and are not able to auto attack them for the amount of time that it takes you to get back in range of them (this happens a lot). If it wasn't for the lack of crit chance and stats on Brugg's cutter I would use it

I understand for all of you defensive spec players that rely on procs, that slower attack speed may not be desirable but I do think it is beneficial to players that do not use witchbrew.

All I'm requesting is for WEs to have a 3.2s attack speed bloodlord dagger like all other mdps classes. SWs have a bow that has 4.2s attack speed for god sake

Back when Sac Stab added 50% AA dmg with 5 finishers for 10s i used Consolidatas or something inf wpn 3.7speed 33 dps and got 1900 AA Crit on Dummy. I really want the AA dmg back now, its insane that no one was (including me) using it because 50% armour pene or witchbrew was too good, but both are nerfed enough that i would happily use sac stab on welf with aa dmg incr. With the AA dmg buff ive done 1200 AA's with 2.8s Speed 800 armour debuff wpn on light armored targets and i was rr 50-60

Sca Stab adding AA dmg, was completly fine and balanced. I have no clue why devs reverted ir back, was not even the best finisher.

[SJHarrison4115]

Terribly sorry and genuinely not meaning to spark any sort of conflict, but this just seems... off... to me, for a number of reasons. Full disclosure, I do play Order and I do play Witch Hunter.

First and foremost, as you mentioned yourself, you're wielding daggers, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have a slow weapon speed. This is the least impactful of the arguments I'd present, but still just feels... off?

Next up would be trying to address your statements about slower weapons being available to other MDPS (Agree) but you included Witch Hunter. I'm not saying I know every weapon, far from it, but I've not encountered a weapon with anything approaching a speed of 3. In fact, the commonly accepted BIS weapon pairing— Bloodlord Longsword + Fortress Matchlock have speeds of 2.8 and 2.4 respectively, which are the slowest I've seen myself.

Additionally, as much as the table is split on this topic, WELF's do have Witches Brew, a source of non-physical damage, of which the benefit cannot be understated. For all the complaints you might have about the ability, it's not something that Witch Hunters have access to outside of bullets.

Finally, and touching notes on the immediately previous statement, you have Witches Brew which deals a flat amount of Corp damage... I could be wrong here, but I believe that triggers off of AA's too? In that case, having the faster weapon speed should be a net burst dps gain to more quickly boost your output.

I'm more than happy to accept that I could be very, very wrong, however, I felt obligated to share my thoughts on the topic.

[Zxul]

you have Witches Brew which deals a flat amount of Corp damage... I could be wrong here,

Since several patches ago, no longer deals a flat dmg- it now scales with str (as in, total dmg even with capped str isn't all that great), and mitigated by toughness (as in, prepare to hit for 200 or less on anything with high toughness).

[germ32]

Terribly sorry and genuinely not meaning to spark any sort of conflict, but this just seems... off... to me, for a number of reasons. Full disclosure, I do play Order and I do play Witch Hunter.

First and foremost, as you mentioned yourself, you're wielding daggers, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have a slow weapon speed. This is the least impactful of the arguments I'd present, but still just feels... off?

Next up would be trying to address your statements about slower weapons being available to other MDPS (Agree) but you included Witch Hunter. I'm not saying I know every weapon, far from it, but I've not encountered a weapon with anything approaching a speed of 3. In fact, the commonly accepted BIS weapon pairing— Bloodlord Longsword + Fortress Matchlock have speeds of 2.8 and 2.4 respectively, which are the slowest I've seen myself.

Additionally, as much as the table is split on this topic, WELF's do have Witches Brew, a source of non-physical damage, of which the benefit cannot be understated. For all the complaints you might have about the ability, it's not something that Witch Hunters have access to outside of bullets.

Finally, and touching notes on the immediately previous statement, you have Witches Brew which deals a flat amount of Corp damage... I could be wrong here, but I believe that triggers off of AA's too? In that case, having the faster weapon speed should be a net burst dps gain to more quickly boost your output.

I'm more than happy to accept that I could be very, very wrong, however, I felt obligated to share my thoughts on the topic.

There are surely swords slower than 2.8 and maybe there should be a 3.2 bloodlord sword for wh as well, but I don't play a wh so I dont feel the need to advocate for you no offense.

If the developers wanted to include that change for whs as well I wouldn't be opposed to it, and 2.8 is still slower than 2.5 it makes a pretty big difference believe it or not.

I have other daggers that have 3.6s attack speed like the one i mentioned previously if you read what i wrote -- so feels wrong to you or not, there are other examples where this is the case.

Not all witch elves use witchbrew, no offense to anyone who uses it I just don't think it is good. It cant crit and doesn't scale with any tactics and costs a global cooldown to cast, the fact that it deals magic damage means nothing to me because I use elixir of insane power which is why I want better autos. You want to deal burst before enemies can detaunt you, and you will be detaunted often before you have a chance to get witchbrew up and hit an enemy 5 times