Renown grind / War crests

[vipevox]

Similar topics have been raised on this forum many times, but they do not produce results. It is obvious that the developers are on the side of veterans who, with the stubbornness of sheep, believe that everyone should go the same way as they did. A completely short-sighted position, but it is very strong among the local community.

[Zxul]

Problem of both AoR and RoR was always that the game doesn't actually has an end game content, so it is replaced with renown/ crests grind, to give some reason to play.

Basically, the game is rpg, rpgs idea is about advancing your character, while once you are 80 with sov or whatever your setup is, realistically there is no way to advance your character = no actual reason to play. Extra bit of fun, is once you have 10 k or so of gold between your toons, gold becomes mostly worthless as well.

[galaxgal]

Similar topics have been raised on this forum many times, but they do not produce results. It is obvious that the developers are on the side of veterans who, with the stubbornness of sheep, believe that everyone should go the same way as they did. A completely short-sighted position, but it is very strong among the local community.

The renown grind is also longer than it used to be, with higher tier sets and lower RR gain, especially for disorganized players who can't get into high-RR/high-gear-only warbands.

[gersy]

Similar topics have been raised on this forum many times, but they do not produce results. It is obvious that the developers are on the side of veterans who, with the stubbornness of sheep, believe that everyone should go the same way as they did. A completely short-sighted position, but it is very strong among the local community.

funny you say that because gearing now is easier than it ever was with unified wards and unified currency - there has been many steps the devs have taken to making gearing more accessible to new players or less skilled players. only thing that is a bit slow now I think is scenario rewards but everything else is fine. to say that they only listen to veterans who "believe that everyone else should do the same grind" is completely false because there has been a constant stream of new player friendly additions and lessening of grind in the past few years.

newer character have it a lot easier than in the past when you had to get gold bags from forts or city to receive invader/sov gear reliably. and you had to play ranked for triumphant/victorious back then too. you also couldn't use pve gear to skip the wards and save 6k+ crests back then. some of the pve sets depending on your class are even prebis and last you easily until sov - such as valewalker/beastlord/sentinel mix for RP/zeal/sham/AM.

now? you can buy it all with war crests with is a currency you can begin receiving at level 1. i can't really think of any other game that lets you purchase the best gear in the game with a currency you can earn starting from the first level. you can do a few hours of pve to skip having to buy vanq/invader, saving over 6k crests there, so even the noobiest guy can get full sov with a little time investment. my slayer and sorc had their sov and triumphant pieces in their bags before they even hit 70rr, by the time they hit 78-80 they will likely have ranked ring too and be fully bis with ease.

[georgehabadasher]

Similar topics have been raised on this forum many times, but they do not produce results. It is obvious that the developers are on the side of veterans who, with the stubbornness of sheep, believe that everyone should go the same way as they did. A completely short-sighted position, but it is very strong among the local community.

funny you say that because gearing now is easier than it ever was with unified wards and unified currency - there has been many steps the devs have taken to making gearing more accessible to new players or less skilled players. only thing that is a bit slow now I think is scenario rewards but everything else is fine. to say that they only listen to veterans who "believe that everyone else should do the same grind" is completely false because there has been a constant stream of new player friendly additions and lessening of grind in the past few years.

newer character have it a lot easier than in the past when you had to get gold bags from forts or city to receive invader/sov gear reliably. and you had to play ranked for triumphant/victorious back then too. you also couldn't use pve gear to skip the wards and save 6k+ crests back then. some of the pve sets depending on your class are even prebis and last you easily until sov - such as valewalker/beastlord/sentinel mix for RP/zeal/sham/AM.

now? you can buy it all with war crests with is a currency you can begin receiving at level 1. i can't really think of any other game that lets you purchase the best gear in the game with a currency you can earn starting from the first level. you can do a few hours of pve to skip having to buy vanq/invader, saving over 6k crests there, so even the noobiest guy can get full sov with a little time investment. my slayer and sorc had their sov and triumphant pieces in their bags before they even hit 70rr, by the time they hit 78-80 they will likely have ranked ring too and be fully bis with ease.

The fact that it was worse in the past doesn't mean it's fine now. The grind isn't that bad for experienced players who 1) have the ability to join groups with other players in bis gear and get carried to decent pre-bis gear when they can start contributing and 2) have an extensive amount of game knowledge, but it's excruciating for a new player. Which is exactly why we see new players consistently drop out when they hit 40.

[agemennon675]

Similar topics have been raised on this forum many times, but they do not produce results. It is obvious that the developers are on the side of veterans who, with the stubbornness of sheep, believe that everyone should go the same way as they did. A completely short-sighted position, but it is very strong among the local community.

funny you say that because gearing now is easier than it ever was with unified wards and unified currency - there has been many steps the devs have taken to making gearing more accessible to new players or less skilled players. only thing that is a bit slow now I think is scenario rewards but everything else is fine. to say that they only listen to veterans who "believe that everyone else should do the same grind" is completely false because there has been a constant stream of new player friendly additions and lessening of grind in the past few years.

newer character have it a lot easier than in the past when you had to get gold bags from forts or city to receive invader/sov gear reliably. and you had to play ranked for triumphant/victorious back then too. you also couldn't use pve gear to skip the wards and save 6k+ crests back then. some of the pve sets depending on your class are even prebis and last you easily until sov - such as valewalker/beastlord/sentinel mix for RP/zeal/sham/AM.

now? you can buy it all with war crests with is a currency you can begin receiving at level 1. i can't really think of any other game that lets you purchase the best gear in the game with a currency you can earn starting from the first level. you can do a few hours of pve to skip having to buy vanq/invader, saving over 6k crests there, so even the noobiest guy can get full sov with a little time investment. my slayer and sorc had their sov and triumphant pieces in their bags before they even hit 70rr, by the time they hit 78-80 they will likely have ranked ring too and be fully bis with ease.

I have like 20 characters I am althacolic been playing for a long time and I can tell for sure they did not made gearing easier, on the contrary its harder now, no city logging, seperate currency for subj weps and accessories, it used to be RNG but players are now getting punished with slower gear progression for the removed aspect of RNG in low RR gearing

[Hugatsaga]

Getting geared can be tedious for players with no experience but as long as you know what you're doing and play with people who can kill stuff, it's not too bad and I think RoR is currently in a pretty good spot with time needed to get endgame gear. To avoid wasting currency on transition gear/unlocking wards you need to do some pve though and getting in groups is not always easy especially if you play non-aoe dps.

I'm rr74 on AM and I already have enough crests to buy all sovereign gear I need as soon as I get high enough rr to wear it and probably will have few thousand crests extra saved for upcoming triumph ring purchase at that point.

I understand that not everyone has such a smooth ride but higher-end pve gear (mix of sentinel, hunter's vale & bastion stair gear) goes long way while working towards your endgame gear. Some Victorious/Triumph pieces can also be best in slot and be bought before Sov, however I'd recommend buying sov before buying the victorious/triumph ring.

[ScreenFofoBan]

i agree with gersy, the new player doesnt realise how more friendly for them the game became compared to few years ago, and still, even back then, people who were complete noob, like me, just spawn on the serv and make the effort to learn how the game work and are still there today, have fun around and didnt "quit when they hit 40" even in a way more confused state of the game than it is today.

So people who want to stay and learn will stay and the other who are not satisfied will just drop out as always in any game, its not because something dont fit your vision of what you think the game should be that you are right and it should change, maybe you should just play something else if the progression feel too slow for you, no one force you to play a game that frustrate you.

Obviously many people are doing great and just succeed to progress their char... i personally roll a new toon from 0 like 1.5month ago, IB, hes 72 RR 6k5 ish crest with already buyed forto shield, all ward done, a decent 2h bloodlord/senti set and a perfectly working SnB gear with vanq i almost fully farmed in gold bag (i just buyed 1 missing pieces, loot other and buyed glove/boot from AH which is again a new help that werent even possible back then) and i barely try hard progression on it since i play lot of other char depending my guild/group need on the moment...

For me the problem is not the progression system, the amount of crest u win or whatever, its more a lack of clarity of information for new player on how this work and even how to play properly their role (i see way too much soloer) because in this game ur gain also depends a lot on ur performance, but even on this devs have made pretty good change already and they keep going, just like that new tutorial dungeon for low lvl, free potion and crest on certain rr lvl etc...

[gersy]

The fact that it was worse in the past doesn't mean it's fine now. The grind isn't that bad for experienced players who 1) have the ability to join groups with other players in bis gear and get carried to decent pre-bis gear when they can start contributing and 2) have an extensive amount of game knowledge, but it's excruciating for a new player. Which is exactly why we see new players consistently drop out when they hit 40.

I didn't say it was fine now. My reply was mostly oriented towards him saying that "devs only listen to vets who want the game to be grindy" which is entirely untrue. I have suggested many times in many different places that gearing should be made easier. I've advocated in official channels several times to reduce the cost of entry sets 40 sets (conq, vanq, invader) to make gearing easier and make the fresh 40 experience for new players a little more bearable. All of what I said remains true still, a new player starting now has it much easier in the gearing department than one starting in years past, and the devs have continually made it easier to gear up.

As a newer player the biggest issues imo are knowledge and not yet having built a social network yet, i.e. joined a guild, found the right people to give them the right information about their class and build, people to play with in proper environments that lead to the grind being less frustrating, etc. I have spent many dozens of hours tutoring new players, writing guides, answering questions in advice chat and gameplay-advice and the like so I have observed many of the struggles, confusion and opinions of new players. For me what I see makes them quit is between a lack of knowledge/confusion of game mechanics and the fact they feel weak when they hit 40 and they don't know how to fix it. Fixing it for many classes is as simple as doing a bit of pve, since sets like sent/vw can be equipped as a fresh 40 and are equivalent, or stronger, than vanq in most cases. New players might find it hard to get in dungeons though, and probably leveled "incorrectly" so hit 40/45 and are standing there with the armor equivalent of wet toilet paper getting shredded by anyone who's played more than a few months.

Ideally I'd like to see conq, vanq, invader costs reduced by 15-33% and then tri/vic/warlord/sov also reduced by 10-25% with the ranked ring reduced by 50% as well. Numbers subject to change naturally, just ball parking there. I'd probably also reduce the RR requirements to equip conq and vanq by 3-5 levels from where they are now. And if not a change to the cost of sets, then an increase in gamewide renown and crest acquisition would be good too. The "stubborn vets" (lol) would probably see that as too much on top of all the other things they've done to make it easier to gear but from my perspective it would be a healthy change. Getting new players in a good set of gear asap after hitting 40 should help with player retention. Beyond that, the knowledge issue remains and unfortunately for many players if they don't meet the right people to lead them in the right direction then some may be lost to the overwhelmingly arcane nature of how this game works.

[galaxgal]

New players might find it hard to get in dungeons though, and probably leveled "incorrectly" so hit 40/45 and are standing there with the armor equivalent of wet toilet paper getting shredded by anyone who's played more than a few months.

The fact that players have to get told to micromanage their RR to keep it a certain pace above their CR to not turn into 'wet toilet paper' as you call it when they ding 40, or being told not to spend crests on leveling gear, though, tells us precisely that something is direly wrong with both progression curves for new players though. Either CR is too fast and it could stand to be slowed down, or RR and crests in the casual/pug bucket is too slow and could stand to be sped up.