Throwing/AFK/Refusing to participate SC

[Bozzax]

Tankyness of healers is the only point people could discuss in this thread, rest is pure ego driven ranting.

Do you mean when you try solo? Or are you saying a group havin problems to kill another groups healer (implying the target gets sup)? In what situations do you find healers to be to tanky?

[VoidEel]

Some really good feedback from everyone I appreciate it.

[Everdin]

Tankyness of healers is the only point people could discuss in this thread, rest is pure ego driven ranting.

Do you mean when you try solo? Or are you saying a group havin problems to kill another groups healer (implying the target gets sup)? In what situations do you find healers to be to tanky?

I dont think it, but it is the only point in this thread that is not taken out of thin air and people could talk about

[Florian90210]

I rarely see people who afk without reason. Experienced player can easily see outcome because people know their enemies and understand party composition problems.
And since you get almost nothing for trying to win, there is no reason to feed enemy making them even stronger.

[VoidEel]

I'm struggling to understand 1 & 2. Do you find Healers to be too strong?

1 healer is fine, I can run anti-heal builds but usually I see people running multiple healers and it completely negates the heal reduction builds. It's like why even bother running that build at that point.

In other games ideally people focus healers down or negate healing but I learned in this game healers are super tanky.

Also I see people ragequit SC just for not having a healer so I assume it's most valued out of all other classes. You don't ever hear "oh man we have no Witch Elf guess we surrender this SC boys good luck on the next one!"

Every post shows you have a very limited point of view. This game is not designed around "You are the chosen one and can kill the whole enemy party". No matter if you are the best player (which i doubt at this point), you won't do **** alone vs other groups. Anti heal builds are to reduce the amount of healing, simple math for you:

Healer one heals 2k damage
Healer two heals 2k damage

Amount of healing = 4k

reduce Healer one's healing by 50%

Amount of healing = 3k

less damage to kill a target, if you are fancy enough, put healdebuff on both etc...

WE is a class, healers is an archetype, no need for WE as long as there are choppers, marauders, squig etc. nobody would complay "Oh no, no zealots, only shamans...".

Tanks are equal critical, but with some compositions of classes you can outplay the enemy without both (very good at kiting etc)

Missing dps in fact is not the biggest issue because you at least have some kind of sustain. You can survive and try at least try, but vs proper enemys, you won't get far. Bad dps can be a factor, to much examples here to write them down, but I'm sure with your big experiance in SC people already mentioned this your presence.

Personaly I would rather play with bad healers and tanks but good dps.

Tankyness of healers is the only point people could discuss in this thread, rest is pure ego driven ranting.

I know WE wasn't meant to 1vX an entire squad but ideally in other games the rogue class can 100 to 0 squishy classes and is also easily killable as a tradeoff. I'm only in Conq gear right now I'm hoping by full sov set someday I actually DO get to 100 to 0 archers and enemy WH who aren't on parry builds. Right now what happens when I run anti-heal build is I barely scratch someone and should they go low they get healed to full bar of health within a second or two and now I'm out of position while they have an Absorb shield stacked on top. I don't know if I'm playing my character positionally correct or not but it just feels underwhelming, maybe because of lower tier gears and daggers?

My gameplay I think is mostly just 100 to 0'ing some squishy DPS backline and disengaging out and repeating when stealth is off cooldown. If I go vs squishy they get healed beyond my conq set and stiletto of tyranny daggers and if I go for the healers they're more tanky in this game than other MMO's I've played before. So I really don't know what else to do here other than hope the squishy DPS are far away from healers or healers are just dumb enough not to heal them in time. I need feedback on that, there's not really any good WE videos on youtube I've come across so far, I've just been winging it all the way to 50 renown so far.

[Sinisterror]

1 healer is fine, I can run anti-heal builds but usually I see people running multiple healers and it completely negates the heal reduction builds. It's like why even bother running that build at that point.

In other games ideally people focus healers down or negate healing but I learned in this game healers are super tanky.

Also I see people ragequit SC just for not having a healer so I assume it's most valued out of all other classes. You don't ever hear "oh man we have no Witch Elf guess we surrender this SC boys good luck on the next one!"

Every post shows you have a very limited point of view. This game is not designed around "You are the chosen one and can kill the whole enemy party". No matter if you are the best player (which i doubt at this point), you won't do **** alone vs other groups. Anti heal builds are to reduce the amount of healing, simple math for you:

Healer one heals 2k damage
Healer two heals 2k damage

Amount of healing = 4k

reduce Healer one's healing by 50%

Amount of healing = 3k

less damage to kill a target, if you are fancy enough, put healdebuff on both etc...

WE is a class, healers is an archetype, no need for WE as long as there are choppers, marauders, squig etc. nobody would complay "Oh no, no zealots, only shamans...".

Tanks are equal critical, but with some compositions of classes you can outplay the enemy without both (very good at kiting etc)

Missing dps in fact is not the biggest issue because you at least have some kind of sustain. You can survive and try at least try, but vs proper enemys, you won't get far. Bad dps can be a factor, to much examples here to write them down, but I'm sure with your big experiance in SC people already mentioned this your presence.

Personaly I would rather play with bad healers and tanks but good dps.

Tankyness of healers is the only point people could discuss in this thread, rest is pure ego driven ranting.

I know WE wasn't meant to 1vX an entire squad but ideally in other games the rogue class can 100 to 0 squishy classes and is also easily killable as a tradeoff. I'm only in Conq gear right now I'm hoping by full sov set someday I actually DO get to 100 to 0 archers and enemy WH who aren't on parry builds. Right now what happens when I run anti-heal build is I barely scratch someone and should they go low they get healed to full bar of health within a second or two and now I'm out of position while they have an Absorb shield stacked on top. I don't know if I'm playing my character positionally correct or not but it just feels underwhelming, maybe because of lower tier gears and daggers?

My gameplay I think is mostly just 100 to 0'ing some squishy DPS backline and disengaging out and repeating when stealth is off cooldown. If I go vs squishy they get healed beyond my conq set and stiletto of tyranny daggers and if I go for the healers they're more tanky in this game than other MMO's I've played before. So I really don't know what else to do here other than hope the squishy DPS are far away from healers or healers are just dumb enough not to heal them in time. I need feedback on that, there's not really any good WE videos on youtube I've come across so far, I've just been winging it all the way to 50 renown so far.

I dont think you have been looking very hard if you haven seen any good WE video's : D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVzvjyMV2Ro&t=1001s

Just start the video from beginning i have no clue why i cant link this video starting from beginning... But yeah you can check this guys WH vids for amazing gameplay as well. Any video from MDPV actually is high lvl gameplay.

EDIT; The reason why everything is failing and nothing works is 1.5s Hard Gcd instead of original 1.15s. This means that all classes with cast times of 1.5s and over are benefitting from this ALOT. It also means that we used to be able to use 8 skills in 10+ seconds and now its 6 in same time : D Missing of 50% Ae heal debuff, Morale dmg cap and lastly 24 aoe cap. Change these or nothing will change. There is also like 20% Less crit around on average per char and im not talking about any bugged lotd bs. On average 20-40% extra crit dmg is also missing.

I wonder how many insane things would be fixed just with the 1.15s gcd.... Since this change everything has been broken so obviously there is a link=)

[Zxul]

I know WE wasn't meant to 1vX an entire squad but ideally in other games the rogue class can 100 to 0 squishy classes and is also easily killable as a tradeoff. I'm only in Conq gear right now I'm hoping by full sov set someday I actually DO get to 100 to 0 archers and enemy WH who aren't on parry builds. Right now what happens when I run anti-heal build is I barely scratch someone and should they go low they get healed to full bar of health within a second or two and now I'm out of position while they have an Absorb shield stacked on top. I don't know if I'm playing my character positionally correct or not but it just feels underwhelming, maybe because of lower tier gears and daggers?

My gameplay I think is mostly just 100 to 0'ing some squishy DPS backline and disengaging out and repeating when stealth is off cooldown. If I go vs squishy they get healed beyond my conq set and stiletto of tyranny daggers and if I go for the healers they're more tanky in this game than other MMO's I've played before. So I really don't know what else to do here other than hope the squishy DPS are far away from healers or healers are just dumb enough not to heal them in time. I need feedback on that, there's not really any good WE videos on youtube I've come across so far, I've just been winging it all the way to 50 renown so far.

Try this build:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 2,521,9434

Bleeding Edge doesn't has the armor pen it had in the old days (only 25% now, compared to 50% before), but should still be enough for light/ medium armor classes. Your goal in this build is to get off as many 5 points Ruthless Assaults as you can, since its your main dmg source.

Rotation is opener- OYK for kd- Wracking Pains (opener puts ailment of target, so WP also puts the debuffs on them)- Pierce Armor (buffs your ws so everything will hit harder)- Black Lotus Blade if there is a chance target will be healed- 2x or 3x Slice OR 2x or 3x Envenomed Blade if you need corp dmg, or less if Whirling Blades gives you 5 points earlier - RA. If target is still alive, spam a few more Slice or EV till you got 5 points, and Pierce Armor when its off cd, and RA again.

Your RA benefits from Bleeding Edge buff for entire duration, +the next 2 abilities which you use benefit from it as well.

If attacking healer, use Kiss of Death- the outgoing heal debuff from it and incoming heal debuff from Black Lotus Blade stack for a total 75% heal debuff. Also remember that you can change kisses without needling to leave stealth. Also, Elixir of Shadows allows you to use an opener on target as well, so between it and main stealth you can put 2 openers on same target, or Elixir of Shadows for speed buff followed by Shadow Leap, to help catch fleeing target.

Also get 2x city dungeon daggers, the one with armor debuff which will help your dmg a lot since your dmg is physical in this build, and the one with 10% to snare someone who is hitting you- will help catching kiters, or getting away if multiple people are attacking you. +as a nice bonus those daggers have a lot of ws as well.

[VoidEel]

Every post shows you have a very limited point of view. This game is not designed around "You are the chosen one and can kill the whole enemy party". No matter if you are the best player (which i doubt at this point), you won't do **** alone vs other groups. Anti heal builds are to reduce the amount of healing, simple math for you:

Healer one heals 2k damage
Healer two heals 2k damage

Amount of healing = 4k

reduce Healer one's healing by 50%

Amount of healing = 3k

less damage to kill a target, if you are fancy enough, put healdebuff on both etc...

WE is a class, healers is an archetype, no need for WE as long as there are choppers, marauders, squig etc. nobody would complay "Oh no, no zealots, only shamans...".

Tanks are equal critical, but with some compositions of classes you can outplay the enemy without both (very good at kiting etc)

Missing dps in fact is not the biggest issue because you at least have some kind of sustain. You can survive and try at least try, but vs proper enemys, you won't get far. Bad dps can be a factor, to much examples here to write them down, but I'm sure with your big experiance in SC people already mentioned this your presence.

Personaly I would rather play with bad healers and tanks but good dps.

Tankyness of healers is the only point people could discuss in this thread, rest is pure ego driven ranting.

I know WE wasn't meant to 1vX an entire squad but ideally in other games the rogue class can 100 to 0 squishy classes and is also easily killable as a tradeoff. I'm only in Conq gear right now I'm hoping by full sov set someday I actually DO get to 100 to 0 archers and enemy WH who aren't on parry builds. Right now what happens when I run anti-heal build is I barely scratch someone and should they go low they get healed to full bar of health within a second or two and now I'm out of position while they have an Absorb shield stacked on top. I don't know if I'm playing my character positionally correct or not but it just feels underwhelming, maybe because of lower tier gears and daggers?

My gameplay I think is mostly just 100 to 0'ing some squishy DPS backline and disengaging out and repeating when stealth is off cooldown. If I go vs squishy they get healed beyond my conq set and stiletto of tyranny daggers and if I go for the healers they're more tanky in this game than other MMO's I've played before. So I really don't know what else to do here other than hope the squishy DPS are far away from healers or healers are just dumb enough not to heal them in time. I need feedback on that, there's not really any good WE videos on youtube I've come across so far, I've just been winging it all the way to 50 renown so far.

I dont think you have been looking very hard if you haven seen any good WE video's : D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVzvjyMV2Ro&t=1001s

Just start the video from beginning i have no clue why i cant link this video starting from beginning... But yeah you can check this guys WH vids for amazing gameplay as well. Any video from MDPV actually is high lvl gameplay.

EDIT; The reason why everything is failing and nothing works is 1.5s Hard Gcd instead of original 1.15s. This means that all classes with cast times of 1.5s and over are benefitting from this ALOT. It also means that we used to be able to use 8 skills in 10+ seconds and now its 6 in same time : D Missing of 50% Ae heal debuff, Morale dmg cap and lastly 24 aoe cap. Change these or nothing will change. There is also like 20% Less crit around on average per char and im not talking about any bugged lotd bs. On average 20-40% extra crit dmg is also missing.

I wonder how many insane things would be fixed just with the 1.15s gcd.... Since this change everything has been broken so obviously there is a link=)

I actually didn't come across this one lol he plays really well! How do I get those addons? I saw some thread with addons but it looked confusing to install. I wanted one where it color-codes different classes mostly for easier targeting and the one in the video where ally/enemy buffs and debuffs show above head.

[VoidEel]

I know WE wasn't meant to 1vX an entire squad but ideally in other games the rogue class can 100 to 0 squishy classes and is also easily killable as a tradeoff. I'm only in Conq gear right now I'm hoping by full sov set someday I actually DO get to 100 to 0 archers and enemy WH who aren't on parry builds. Right now what happens when I run anti-heal build is I barely scratch someone and should they go low they get healed to full bar of health within a second or two and now I'm out of position while they have an Absorb shield stacked on top. I don't know if I'm playing my character positionally correct or not but it just feels underwhelming, maybe because of lower tier gears and daggers?

My gameplay I think is mostly just 100 to 0'ing some squishy DPS backline and disengaging out and repeating when stealth is off cooldown. If I go vs squishy they get healed beyond my conq set and stiletto of tyranny daggers and if I go for the healers they're more tanky in this game than other MMO's I've played before. So I really don't know what else to do here other than hope the squishy DPS are far away from healers or healers are just dumb enough not to heal them in time. I need feedback on that, there's not really any good WE videos on youtube I've come across so far, I've just been winging it all the way to 50 renown so far.

Try this build:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 2,521,9434

Bleeding Edge doesn't has the armor pen it had in the old days (only 25% now, compared to 50% before), but should still be enough for light/ medium armor classes. Your goal in this build is to get off as many 5 points Ruthless Assaults as you can, since its your main dmg source.

Rotation is opener- OYK for kd- Wracking Pains (opener puts ailment of target, so WP also puts the debuffs on them)- Pierce Armor (buffs your ws so everything will hit harder)- Black Lotus Blade if there is a chance target will be healed- 2x or 3x Slice OR 2x or 3x Envenomed Blade if you need corp dmg, or less if Whirling Blades gives you 5 points earlier - RA. If target is still alive, spam a few more Slice or EV till you got 5 points, and Pierce Armor when its off cd, and RA again.

Your RA benefits from Bleeding Edge buff for entire duration, +the next 2 abilities which you use benefit from it as well.

If attacking healer, use Kiss of Death- the outgoing heal debuff from it and incoming heal debuff from Black Lotus Blade stack for a total 75% heal debuff. Also remember that you can change kisses without needling to leave stealth. Also, Elixir of Shadows allows you to use an opener on target as well, so between it and main stealth you can put 2 openers on same target, or Elixir of Shadows for speed buff followed by Shadow Leap, to help catch fleeing target.

Also get 2x city dungeon daggers, the one with armor debuff which will help your dmg a lot since your dmg is physical in this build, and the one with 10% to snare someone who is hitting you- will help catching kiters, or getting away if multiple people are attacking you. +as a nice bonus those daggers have a lot of ws as well.

Ooo that makes a lot of sense, I was wondering whether or not the 2 heal debuffs stacked to make 75% I know on other games like League it does that. Yeah I've been running I'll try the build out and buy the dungeon daggers those sound really good. I appreciate the feedback!

I was originally running this build:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 51,9450&t=

It's mostly for maximizing Agonizing Wound and crit damage.

My opening for this one was either Treacherous Assault or Enfeebling Strike depending on if it was magic or melee target. I'd then do 1 Agonizing Pain and Heartseeker and continue to Agonizing until they ran away and if they were too far I'd finish with Ruthless Assault. If they still weren't dead I'd use Elixer of Shadows + Shadow Leap to continue sticking to them.

[Zxul]

Ooo that makes a lot of sense, I was wondering whether or not the 2 heal debuffs stacked to make 75% I know on other games like League it does that. Yeah I've been running I'll try the build out and buy the dungeon daggers those sound really good. I appreciate the feedback!

I was originally running this build:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... 51,9450&t=

It's mostly for maximizing Agonizing Wound and crit damage.

My opening for this one was either Treacherous Assault or Enfeebling Strike depending on if it was magic or melee target. I'd then do 1 Agonizing Pain and Heartseeker and continue to Agonizing until they ran away and if they were too far I'd finish with Ruthless Assault. If they still weren't dead I'd use Elixer of Shadows + Shadow Leap to continue sticking to them.

Problem with maxing Treachery tree is that it doesn't has a good finisher, and WE needs finisher dmg to actually do a decent dmg. You can use RA, but abilities scale with points invested into trees (into trees themselves, not with points invested to buy abilities from trees), so RA with no points into Carnage will do much less dmg that RA with points in Carnage. Not to mention not having Bleeding Edge, ws buff from Pierce Armor, and likely no Frenzied Mayhem.

The only two (semi) good finishers which WEs are currently have are RA and Witchbrew, so you need one of those trees. Both finishers btw are heavily nerfed compared to old times. Witchbrew specifically now requires str, and is mitigated by toughness, so on am/rp/ anything with kotb aura or ib's Stubborn As Stone or rp mark you have to deal with high resists, on tanks you have to deal with high toughness, and on tank with kotb aura or ib's buff or rp mark you have to deal with both. Lot of WEs still like Witchbrew however, so might try it as well and see what works better for you.