Kotbs Arcing Swing suggestion and about 2h spec

[Alubert]

The 2h knight is a bit of a mess, and the only saving grace for it in WB play is basically a bug. Nightless proc and coordination are incorrectly stacking, so you can run around at 86% parry when BiS if I recall correctly off the top of my head. This lets you stay alive long enough to stay on your guard, and spread your debuffs around.

That said, if you gave me the option to copy/paste the abilities of a chosen from Destro over to Order on the knight, I'd probably take it. I don't think the inverse is true. Chosen just performs better in more play styles with less difficulty.

1. Nightless proc dont stack. Stat doll or getstats confirm this (count highest value)

2. I would also gladly accept Knight tools and give away chosen toys. All destro healers would love me and order healers would hate you .
As for the difficulty of character building and use, Knight is easy mode vs chosen (except for solo roaming which doesn't interest me).

The only thing that can fix the situation is to give chosen old CS and take away Deamonclaw plus take away Relentless spirit dmg component from tactics.
Order will stop crying that chosen is hitting too hard and chosen will finally get its best utlites back.

[Farrul]

Yes, but OP claims that damage (and healing) is basically all that matters. If that was true we would see every tank running 2h with focused offence. However, that is not something we see because a tank is a tank first and foremost. As such, the regular tanking duties (damage mitigation, buffs and debuffs) is what matters most. Luckily, the knight is excellent in that department. OP is making these hyperbolic and missinformed threads every few years. Just like his last whine thread this is a solo hero whining about playing the ultimate group class.

What is being discussed here is damage because the 2H kotbs lacks it in an unfair way. One thing does not exclude the other.

The MDPV quote 1-2 pages back summerize it well. The devs of ror messed this one up by removing Mighty soul which was the original knight that could do damage, and changed things that further messed it up ( post by sinister explains it well for those who do not know the history of the game). There is no balance justification for that, it just made many 2H knights quit the class and reroll Chosen or somethng else because the fun is not there in a buffbot with no dps.

So damage matters for tanks that goes the 2H route and specialize in it, obviously.

[Nekkma]

Yes, but OP claims that damage (and healing) is basically all that matters. If that was true we would see every tank running 2h with focused offence. However, that is not something we see because a tank is a tank first and foremost. As such, the regular tanking duties (damage mitigation, buffs and debuffs) is what matters most. Luckily, the knight is excellent in that department. OP is making these hyperbolic and missinformed threads every few years. Just like his last whine thread this is a solo hero whining about playing the ultimate group class.

What is being discussed here is damage because the 2H kotbs lacks it in an unfair way. One thing does not exclude the other.

The MDPV quote 1-2 pages back summerize it well. The devs of ror messed this one up by removing Mighty soul which was the original knight that could do damage, and changed things that further messed it up ( post by sinister explains it well for those who do not know the history of the game). There is no balance justification for that, it just made many 2H knights quit the class and reroll Chosen or somethng else because the fun is not there in a buffbot with no dps.

So damage matters for tanks that goes the 2H route and specialize in it, obviously.

Unfair or not is debatable. Knight have always had way to much utility in an "unfair" way if you ask me. On live BO had really good burst damage but limited utility. I agree that damage matters some (as a secondary function). This is why you cannot decouple damage and utility. Great utility should mean less damage and conversely.

[Battlefield]

I'm one of those stubborn veterans who have been around for quite a while, and prefers to play the 2h KotBS. I've done a lot of experimenting over time, and it's about speccing for what you're doing.

The conversation here has been accurate in a lot of ways, and it feels like people are kind of talking around each other. Their is no reason to bring more than one 2h knight to a warband for ORvR play. That's 100% true. You want your arcing swing, and the crit chance it brings with tactic, and the wounds debuff that comes with it. Those are really big, it also gives you a bit more flexibility in composition as well, so you can stagger auras you usually spec into if you end up with double knights in a group. Don't sleep on staggering impact either, it's better than you give it credit.

As a BiS 2h knight, you can soloroam, but you won't be as effective as pretty much anything else, and you really have to outplay and outgear everyone you run up against. I think most WE's and Shamans that find me solo in the lakes are surprised at the challenge, and how often I come out on top. If you are going to solo roam though, don't hesitate to use your pots. You are a tank, use your strengths, and outlasting them is a BIG one.

The Chosen just does a lot of the things that knight does to, and it does most of them almost just as well, or close to. It also brings other tools to compensate in the areas they are lacking in comparison. The inverse isn't true, and people are ALWAYS going to compare them, because they are aura tanks. In my head, as far as the role they fill, I feel like the BG and the KotBS are more similar, super tanky, or a walking debuff bot.

I'd like to see the KotBS improved a lot. There are two skills that I just *NEVER* use that I can think of off the top of my head: Perserverance, and Precision strike. You should always be running an armor pot, and the difference between the weakest pot and skill is minimal, and the AP is pointless with other skills available to us, and the ease of getting AP pots.

The 2h knight is a bit of a mess, and the only saving grace for it in WB play is basically a bug. Nightless proc and coordination are incorrectly stacking, so you can run around at 86% parry when BiS if I recall correctly off the top of my head. This lets you stay alive long enough to stay on your guard, and spread your debuffs around.

That said, if you gave me the option to copy/paste the abilities of a chosen from Destro over to Order on the knight, I'd probably take it. I don't think the inverse is true. Chosen just performs better in more play styles with less difficulty.

Yes, for a 2h Knight Perserverance ability is almost useless and in shield spec i use Perserverance with Vigilance together to prevent removal last, so Perserverance ability can be changed to give something more useful for 2h Knight, for example reduce magic or physical damage taken by 10% for 10 seconds

I want to split crit chance tactic to use only with great weapon and allow the Acing Swing to use with a shield.

Because the parry buff from a tactic and tactics stack with other buffs

[Battlefield]

The 2h knight is a bit of a mess, and the only saving grace for it in WB play is basically a bug. Nightless proc and coordination are incorrectly stacking, so you can run around at 86% parry when BiS if I recall correctly off the top of my head.

The Coordination proc (https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/6038) and the Reactionary proc from Nightless https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/10716 both are listed as Non-stacking. Are you sure the bug exists currently?

As i said it should stack because parry buff from a tactic slot and tactics stack with other buffs, likewise BG has parry tactic it stack with such weapon too

However, I checked the parry buff at Kotbs, it doesn't stack

[nocturnalguest]

What is being discussed here is damage because the 2H kotbs lacks it in an unfair way. One thing does not exclude the other.

The MDPV quote 1-2 pages back summerize it well. The devs of ror messed this one up by removing Mighty soul which was the original knight that could do damage, and changed things that further messed it up ( post by sinister explains it well for those who do not know the history of the game). There is no balance justification for that, it just made many 2H knights quit the class and reroll Chosen or somethng else because the fun is not there in a buffbot with no dps.

So damage matters for tanks that goes the 2H route and specialize in it, obviously.

I cant see any discussion here, only whining, demagogue, ignoring of context, shoehorning of narratives and lots of other low things.

Quoting Second you guys ignore the fact that he was talking about solo in a thread about solo play.

If topic would be called "balance suggestions to improve kotbs solo roamin capabilities" id be totally fine with that and maybe joined proper discussion with my view.

However tho, creating threads like this with alot of false claims, made up out of context issues are doing only harm imo. Its literally spreading myths and urban legends to newcomers.

I do get psychological aspect of will to brainlessly do dmg numbers with big stick. Ideally with aoe none physical undefendable attack.

It has nothing to do with balance, class efficiency and stuff. Its just off topic chatting, thankfully tho in proper forum section even, may i note

[Battlefield]

Yes, but OP claims that damage (and healing) is basically all that matters. If that was true we would see every tank running 2h with focused offence. However, that is not something we see because a tank is a tank first and foremost. As such, the regular tanking duties (damage mitigation, buffs and debuffs) is what matters most. Luckily, the knight is excellent in that department. OP is making these hyperbolic and missinformed threads every few years. Just like his last whine thread this is a solo hero whining about playing the ultimate group class.

What is being discussed here is damage because the 2H kotbs lacks it in an unfair way. One thing does not exclude the other.

The MDPV quote 1-2 pages back summerize it well. The devs of ror messed this one up by removing Mighty soul which was the original knight that could do damage, and changed things that further messed it up ( post by sinister explains it well for those who do not know the history of the game). There is no balance justification for that, it just made many 2H knights quit the class and reroll Chosen or somethng else because the fun is not there in a buffbot with no dps.

So damage matters for tanks that goes the 2H route and specialize in it, obviously.

damage matters because the point of this game is you have health points the enemy has health points and the goal is to damage the enemy's hp as quickly as possible and send him to their warcamp for respawn - that's it (if you exclude controls, guards, parry, blocks, etc)

[Battlefield]

Yes, but OP claims that damage (and healing) is basically all that matters. If that was true we would see every tank running 2h with focused offence. However, that is not something we see because a tank is a tank first and foremost. As such, the regular tanking duties (damage mitigation, buffs and debuffs) is what matters most. Luckily, the knight is excellent in that department. OP is making these hyperbolic and missinformed threads every few years. Just like his last whine thread this is a solo hero whining about playing the ultimate group class.

What is being discussed here is damage because the 2H kotbs lacks it in an unfair way. One thing does not exclude the other.

The MDPV quote 1-2 pages back summerize it well. The devs of ror messed this one up by removing Mighty soul which was the original knight that could do damage, and changed things that further messed it up ( post by sinister explains it well for those who do not know the history of the game). There is no balance justification for that, it just made many 2H knights quit the class and reroll Chosen or somethng else because the fun is not there in a buffbot with no dps.

So damage matters for tanks that goes the 2H route and specialize in it, obviously.

Unfair or not is debatable. Knight have always had way to much utility in an "unfair" way if you ask me. On live BO had really good burst damage but limited utility. I agree that damage matters some (as a secondary function). This is why you cannot decouple damage and utility. Great utility should mean less damage and conversely.

BO has a lot utility too now :

absorb 500 damage for all team every 10 seconds (as SM)

debuff 100+ strength 25ft to all targets within 25ft

Da Greenest buff resistance or armor to group members within 100ft or wounds

Savin' me Hide for group members reduce magic damage taken by 20% for 5 seconds

10% parry buff (Tuffer'n Nails) with tactic (No Chopin' Me) also affect group members withing 30ft

WAAAAAAGH! every 5 seconds debuff corporeal resistance and groupmates autoattack damage increased by 25% for 10 seconds, it means may use all the time and give a permanent +25% AA damage buff !!

BO even got a punt like Chosen/Kotbs or IB/BG have is Git Out!

[nocturnalguest]

The 2h knight is a bit of a mess, and the only saving grace for it in WB play is basically a bug. Nightless proc and coordination are incorrectly stacking, so you can run around at 86% parry when BiS if I recall correctly off the top of my head.

The Coordination proc (https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/6038) and the Reactionary proc from Nightless https://war-abilityviewer.dalen.io/ability/10716 both are listed as Non-stacking. Are you sure the bug exists currently?

As i said it should stack because parry buff from a tactic slot and tactics stack with other buffs, likewise BG has parry tactic it stack with such weapon too

However, I checked the parry buff at Kotbs, it doesn't stack

It used to stack once introduced but got "fixed" quite quick in RoR terms tho. That was nice feature in my pov, such outliners spicy up gameplay and open up more options.

Lets wait for detailed Only's reply but theory here is the following - in case of coordination tactic it modifies the ability thus counts as "ability" hence not stacking with another "ability" reactionary proc. In case of BG it increases parry straightly without ability modification hence counts as "tactic"

[Rapzel]

Yes, but OP claims that damage (and healing) is basically all that matters. If that was true we would see every tank running 2h with focused offence. However, that is not something we see because a tank is a tank first and foremost. As such, the regular tanking duties (damage mitigation, buffs and debuffs) is what matters most. Luckily, the knight is excellent in that department. OP is making these hyperbolic and missinformed threads every few years. Just like his last whine thread this is a solo hero whining about playing the ultimate group class.

What is being discussed here is damage because the 2H kotbs lacks it in an unfair way. One thing does not exclude the other.

The MDPV quote 1-2 pages back summerize it well. The devs of ror messed this one up by removing Mighty soul which was the original knight that could do damage, and changed things that further messed it up ( post by sinister explains it well for those who do not know the history of the game). There is no balance justification for that, it just made many 2H knights quit the class and reroll Chosen or somethng else because the fun is not there in a buffbot with no dps.

So damage matters for tanks that goes the 2H route and specialize in it, obviously.

damage matters because the point of this game is you have health points the enemy has health points and the goal is to damage the enemy's hp as quickly as possible and send him to their warcamp for respawn - that's it (if you exclude controls, guards, parry, blocks, etc)

Mmhm and the tanks job is to remove as much of enemy damage as possible, not add as much damage as possible.

Impressive that you manage to derail your own thread to this point though, or do you wish to enlighten me how SnB Arcing Swing would improve 2h DPS?

Moreover I have to applaud you who call yourselves veterans and who play your BiS geared tanks, and still after supposedly played for "years" have not figured out what stacks and what does not.

If we continue down the path of "knight lacks DPS in an unfair way". No it does not, that is a pure skill issue.