classes role

[Bozzax]

As long as nerfbuttons is functional, the skill floor for any class or spec can be really quite low. I'm not arguing for or against the addon, but only to say that I don't think it makes sense to talk about skill / reward as long as it exists and is functional.

Or with Razor nagas and gaming keyboards that can automate most stuff regardless

[Jaycub]

As long as nerfbuttons is functional, the skill floor for any class or spec can be really quite low. I'm not arguing for or against the addon, but only to say that I don't think it makes sense to talk about skill / reward as long as it exists and is functional.

Or with Razor nagas and gaming keyboards that can automate most stuff regardless

Nerfed buttons is a crutch, you will always do better just learning those conditions and rotations and using the abilities yourself, Nerfed buttons will get you into trouble in a lot of cases, it is however a great visualization and learning tool for new/casual players... but still a crutch.

Also if a PvP game can be trivialized with something like a keyboard/mouse scripts than it is probably poor game design.

[Vigfuss]

As long as nerfbuttons is functional, the skill floor for any class or spec can be really quite low. I'm not arguing for or against the addon, but only to say that I don't think it makes sense to talk about skill / reward as long as it exists and is functional.

Or with Razor nagas and gaming keyboards that can automate most stuff regardless

Nerfed buttons is a crutch, you will always do better just learning those conditions and rotations and using the abilities yourself, Nerfed buttons will get you into trouble in a lot of cases, it is however a great visualization and learning tool for new/casual players... but still a crutch.

Also if a PvP game can be trivialized with something like a keyboard/mouse scripts than it is probably poor game design.

Agreed.

But NB was able to look for conditions, not sure if that possible in RoR. It could find things like friendly target health %. Macro that in with your dps WP/DoK rotation, and you will be rending soul or divine assaulting without even having to think about it.

[lilsabin]

+1

[Torgen]

I don't really think DPS DoK/WP need a total overhaul, they work well in certain comps and could use a small buff like the gap closer suggested.

They got so much hate because so many pug dps spec WP/DoK tend to do terribly and draw ire because people see them and go "instead of being garbage they could be healing". Games should be balanced at the highest level of play,we don't need to buff melee healers to the point where they are "mandatory" in 6 man comps. I would think balancing the game away from the melee train meta would be a bit more important.

I agree that DPS WP/DOK don't need much more than a gap closer, but the idea would be to have a real melee healer (independently of the DPS spec).
In the end, the best option may be to increase base healing while reducing damage% healed, as Penril suggested, and make it scale with willpower, while nerfing tome's RF regen (...or even getting completely rid of tomes). This way, WP/DOK would have to choose between a "meh" ranged healing (due to RF management) or a strong melee healing (which should have been the concept of the class), while not making them dps. Add to this a charge-like ability to be able to go melee/get out of melee when heavily focused (to offset the disadvantage of being a melee healer) and it will not be bad at all.

[Tesq]

ye get rid of tome or reduces rec, so how you will heal all the bombing around? You know that the insane dps aoe war have it's counter by dok/wp aoe spam right? This sounds like the same solution for chosen aura.....nerf auras!!! cos those bomb bw will never be killy.....even after the resistence aura get nerf!!!

Totaly remove/change things it's not an optimal solution.

if you wanna play a dps /healer you need a dedicated party that's all.

It work ? yea, it's easy ? no cos healing by doing damage it's a lot harder if you face kiters.
try yo heal in the zerg we had today with continiusly target switch and kite....
Force to be Melee /healer will simply not work you will just ruin 1 healer pairing in game with any change.

DOK/WP with chalice/book need to be force to stay more front line that's all

as melee/healer you need a dedicated party and they need to have dps /heal and damage reduction to work.
this mean you need to balance it for 2 dps/healer x party to make them balance and not OP nor crap.

Maybe we can look things from another side, instead nerf (cos ppl hate dok/wp ) and it result bad an hard make skills changes due to client, you could make rec even when dual weild and 2h, that way they could bot spam due to rec and stay melee it's a fast easy and serverside solution.
For sure they cannot rec like they would with chalice/book but if they can 50% time spam and other 50% cc+heal that would be wonderfull and we will have the first working hybrid class in game.