WE is now dead

[Bozao]

I think you need to play more with your WE class; it seems like all these years haven't been enough. Right now, WE has so many options that it doesn't make sense to waste time with another MDPS class. This patch was also quite bad for other MDPS classes, like the Slayer/Choppa, which became useless. If WH/WE do everything the Slayer/Choppa did, and better, without being beaten by their own shadow, why would I build a Slayer?

[Panzer80]

WH has now received the tools to be more effective against tankier builds with their new spirit damage and abso spam became abso/BAL spam. WE now has a core wounds debuff and second armor pen ability and feinted positioning buff build. WH changes are more blatant and WE's are more subtle. WE is definitely less obvious to spec for now than WH. WE's still have more flat damage boost tactics than WH btw, better tactics in general. Vindication for WH was nerfed by 10%. Granted it was only needed against annoying magus players... So, no new meta WE build has arisen, but the patch did not change the dynamic between WH/WE. I guess people expected it to.

WH has always been stronger at standard dps specs than WE (against squishy targets). WE have always been stronger on off spec builds (defensive, and hybrid). That's why there's more WE's running around with weird gear setups than WH's who are usually 5/4, 6/3 dps geared. WE should have never had the range. Make things clap instead if in close. I think they already have more dps on their finishers than WH if you add them all up. Honestly, just increase blade spins dmg by 15% and make it 10ft instead of 25ft reduce the CD to 5 sec and buff 5 ft finishers dmg by 5% or something. I'd like WH blessed ammo tactic to also increase range incendiary shot by 10 ft XD. I think then we'll be cooking.

If you keep asking for buffing WE in this way you'll have to nerf what they are already better at.

[gisborne]

Are classes that received significant changes less than a week ago dominating popularity? Is this surprising? Obviously, these are just trials and tests for the majority. Look at this statistic in a month, and you'll have a more accurate idea of ​​class popularity.

Weird how your rationale doesn't seem to apply to Choppa, Slayer, WL, and Marauder. I wonder what the difference is?

[Faction69]

I would be more than happy if they evened out the WH and WE DPS specs in exchange for them nerfing regen WE into complete oblivion to the point we never even have to think about it ever again. It's been way too long that regen WE has dictated solo / duo /trio roaming.

[sven85z]

WH is so much better right now in dps spec, The worst change to WE was the range nerf on Ruthless Assault made me retire that spec I feel like only Witchbrew spec is decent now the new Sacrificial Stab kinda suck the old RA build was much better.
I feel like many WE will just go defftard build now.

[Mindbleed]

Are we playing the same game?

[Shieldslam]

TLDR: Change most of WE magical damage to physical and buff their physical damage so it finally has an identity and benefits from, as well as needs to build, armor pen just like other melee dps. Change Torment/Agonizing Wound for WH/WE to not ignore armor by default but instead double your armor pen to force them to build WS. Remove Witchbrew and give them an actual "execution" type finisher that works on ST, basically change Blade Spin to ST with more dmg.

Spoiler:

Comparing WH and WE makes the differences and problematic parts of their kits obvious. The magic dmg is where it's at.

In WHs case the magical damage they have access to in form of "Fervor", Bullets and the new "Incendiary Shot" complements their kit and simply gives them an option but cannot be used as a standalone foundation of an entire build. Those abilities do damage but nowhere near enough for that. The entirety of WH desperately needs weapon skill / armor pen to achieve any results against medium armor and up, thus they HAVE to invest into WS and STR at the same time otherwise they're not a threat and fail at their intended purpose - assassination. The entire kit, abilities and even look scream "squishy" and it's reflected in their entire gameplay. All of their finishers are physical and it brings the entire class together, imagine if BAL was magical - we'd see the same abomination build that WE has. By the way, the new BAL tactic is overkill as it's already the biggest hitting ability and just got buffed even more from that + it's boring.

WEs, on the other hand, are a complete mess when you take a closer look at their abilities. Witchbrew is the biggest and top contender for probably the most unfitting ability in the entire game from a gameplay perspective. As someone else said here before, WH/WE rely on finishers and having the most used (or most useful?) one being a simple buff that adds a chunk of magical damage to your next attacks is absolutely a design failure. You cannot balance a class around both physical and magical damage because they need different stats and playstyles. So physical WE does not use their magical damage as an addition like WH but instead has the opportunity to build entirely around it which then gives them the option to put all those stats they'd need for WS into defensive ones. Magical (or commonly called def/regen) WE just ends up puking a bunch of magical DoTs/damage onto you (3x EB, WB, WP, + Enfeebling Strike and even Kisses) without any sense of grace or planning. Build for magical dmg = your physical does nothing, build for physical = magical will do way less dmg to a point where it's not even worth using. I'm honestly so disappointed that Witchbrew didn't get replaced by Blade Spin entirely and mid tree reworked, a physical finisher that has increased crit chance against low health targets and even looks/feels great to press? THE perfect finisher for a stealth assassin. The moment I saw that on test server I was genuinely thinking about rerolling to WE but turns out it's (apparently) just a blob ability and not specifically worth using over any other finisher. I understand that WB is what keeps this class alive but something has to change because there's constant complaining every single day since the patch (and before) about this specific topic with many being infuriated that the only solution to def WE is "lol just don't leave warcamp without your wb lmao" while WE themselves are complaining that dmg build is dogshit and they're forced to run boring def spec. Also no reason that the leap resets cd on stealth and slows for 40%, feels nearly impossibly to get away from a WE now.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, Torment & Agonizing Wound (the backstabs) should not have 100% armor pen by default. Again, it should add onto your kit and having an ability that by default ignores armor without you having to build for it just defeats the purpose in my opinion. Make it so that it's 0% but scales your armor pen 200% (so if you have 50% from stats you now have 100% with this attack from behind) which in the end would be basically the same for any actual damage build where as any kind of def spec wouldn't be able to burst you without building for it (and thus being squishy).

[Sever1n]

Shieldslam pretty much nailed it.

On regen WE after all years of askings for nerf, they get huge buff by making heartrender regural skill.

Im checking kilboard now and see that we "unplayable" pounce do solid dmg.

- Shadow Leap - Reworked to: Ailment. 30 AP. 45 ft range. Instant. 30s CD. You pounce forwards towards your target, stabbing them with your daggers to deal (112 + 1.5*DB + 1.5*WDPS) damage. Your target's movement speed will be reduced by 40% for 3 seconds. Whenever you enter stealth, the cooldown of Shadow Leap is reset.

And WEs call this this thing broken and bad. No commentary really.

About Sacrifical - asked few WE they told it can hit near 3.7k. It pure dmg only negated by toughness, that is dealt instantly- no ticks and armpen as bal have needed. Basically this means balanced death in few secons after stun for any squishy target. And 10s snare on top autofixing all problems with kiters.

WEs now imitating drama to for devs to look at that 5ft brutal like end of world.

This rework feels like sabotage to game balance , im so disappointed that majority of players dont even see obvios things.

Well im "happy" that it will be few years of dealing with broken op WEs before we might have a fix. And really happy for blind WH mains that still keep thinking that they near lvl of bullshit available to WEs.

Most disappointing thing in it all that devs dont listen to feedback making all this discussions and forum uselles waste of time (((

[Panzer80]

Shieldslam pretty much nailed it.

On regen WE after all years of askings for nerf, they get huge buff by making heartrender regural skill.

Im checking kilboard now and see that we "unplayable" pounce do solid dmg.

- Shadow Leap - Reworked to: Ailment. 30 AP. 45 ft range. Instant. 30s CD. You pounce forwards towards your target, stabbing them with your daggers to deal (112 + 1.5*DB + 1.5*WDPS) damage. Your target's movement speed will be reduced by 40% for 3 seconds. Whenever you enter stealth, the cooldown of Shadow Leap is reset.

And WEs call this this thing broken and bad. No commentary really.

About Sacrifical - asked few WE they told it can hit near 3.7k. It pure dmg only negated by toughness, that is dealt instantly- no ticks and armpen as bal have needed. Basically this means balanced death in few secons after stun for any squishy target. And 10s snare on top autofixing all problems with kiters.

WEs now imitating drama to for devs to look at that 5ft brutal like end of world.

This rework feels like sabotage to game balance , im so disappointed that majority of players dont even see obvios things.

Well im "happy" that it will be few years of dealing with broken op WEs before we might have a fix. And really happy for blind WH mains that still keep thinking that they near lvl of bullshit available to WEs.

Most disappointing thing in it all that devs dont listen to feedback making all this discussions and forum uselles waste of time (((

Didn't nail anything. They have no idea what they're talking about. That rant was for pre-patch if anything. We are now post-patch hence the OP.. Heartrender has nothing to do with 'regen WE". Just leave the forums then. No one will miss the cry posts.

[Gunlinger]

All this fuss is just distraction out of fear that overbuffed stuff on WE gets attention in the pre patch phase.