Classes shouldn't be balanced equally between faction mirrors

[Tuffy]

As title says, it's not only a matter of balancing both classes of a same role (slayer and choppa for example) and looking at them in a bubble but thinking of the context they are in

Both in tabletop and total war dwarves are an extremely defensive race, with orcs being the total opposite. Some of the design choices in RoR already reflect that (order being more ranged focused while destro being blob focused)

Forcing the order to play the same game as destro is always going to become a losing battle due to significant differences, and it's ok that there are differences

WE prefers to dive in (shown by having a pounce) and thus having them stick in the blob with their new aoe actually contributes to the whole rvr damage, meanwhile WH prefers to hit and run (shown by having a backjump) and its current aoe while matching WE on raw numbers, it doesn't contribute as much due to there not being a blob like destro

Even the ranged destro classes go into the blob (SH) while melee SW needs a rework (which i know its on its way)

Slayer mains wouldn't be complaining if they were on destro side as they wouldn't have such a hard time surviving if they were next to 3 other melee classes like choppa

And no, slayer doesn't need a pull, it needs tools to play into the faction, either debuffs to help contain the blob, increased armor for teammates, slows, as it is in table warhammer, slayers are still part of a mega defensive race

WL pet should be resistant to aoe damage by 98 or 99% (wow fixed this issue a long time ago) so they could actually have more diversity in warbands and actually use the pet to the faction's benefit rather than being a divebomb that tries to nuke 1 target and dies or a worse marauder

[REWENGA]

WL pet should be resistant to aoe damage by 98 or 99% (wow fixed this issue a long time ago) so they could actually have more diversity in warbands and actually use the pet to the faction's benefit rather than being a divebomb that tries to nuke 1 target and dies or a worse marauder

I would say around 96-97% to maintain an honest balance.

Furthermore, specifically for the lion, I would also add immunity of 32-33% for ST damage and 41-44% for AOE damage. Otherwise, the pet's 96-99% immunity would not be useful to the faction if the toon died first. In this case, an extra tactic could be added to allow the pet to continue living even after the toon's death. Yes, perhaps this is even better. Obviously, RR and crests earned by the pet would go to the toon.

[Tuffy]

"Furthermore, specifically for the lion, I would also add immunity of 32-33% for ST damage and 41-44% for AOE damage. Otherwise, the pet's 96-99% immunity would not be useful to the faction if the toon died first. In this case, an extra tactic could be added to allow the pet to continue living even after the toon's death. Yes, perhaps this is even better. Obviously, RR and crests earned by the pet would go to the toon."

I don't fully agree with this as WL doesn't seem to be a surviving class by itself but if you want the survivability you have to use your pet.

By making the pet resistant to 96+% aoe dmg people need to make the choice to either fully focusing the pet or you, in any other game even if they focus the summoner usually the pets have enough tools to help you out, at least if you spec into them

Id first start testing the waters with the aoe reduction for pet first without diving deep into other resistances as just the pet not being instantly nuked by a blob of aoe damage is a big of a change enough to see how versatile can WL get. As i said order doesnt necessarely go full front and i'd imagine a WL would want to kite with pet and present a double threat than just being two dps sponges

[Tushi]

WL pet should be resistant to aoe damage by 98 or 99% (wow fixed this issue a long time ago) so they could actually have more diversity in warbands and actually use the pet to the faction's benefit rather than being a divebomb that tries to nuke 1 target and dies or a worse marauder

I would say around 96-97% to maintain an honest balance.

Furthermore, specifically for the lion, I would also add immunity of 32-33% for ST damage and 41-44% for AOE damage. Otherwise, the pet's 96-99% immunity would not be useful to the faction if the toon died first. In this case, an extra tactic could be added to allow the pet to continue living even after the toon's death. Yes, perhaps this is even better. Obviously, RR and crests earned by the pet would go to the toon.

This has to be bait right?
I think you just worded it terribly when you said " specifically for the lion", and you actually meant the elf player character, who is most certainly not an actual lion, unlike their pet, which is specifically a lion...
Amusingly though, if that's wrong and you're suggesting the pet gets 140ish% aoe damage reduction along with 33% st damage reduction, that's actually a less stupid idea (although still extremely stupid) than the idea I think you actually meant to write. That the wl pet gets 97% aoe damage reduction along with a 33% st damage reduction and 40%+ aoe damage reduction for the player.

[gersy]

0/10 ragebait

[Tuffy]

0/10 ragebait

Why is it ragebait, can you at least expand on what you disagree on? Im not wanting to oppose my opinions i want to create a discussion on how classes should be balanced different regarding faction and my own opinion (which isnt absolute, just a base to start the feedback)

[redhairedstepchild]

Unfortunately, as every military historian knows, defensive warfare always loses to offensive warfare (in b4 cherry-picking exceptions without knowing what I am talking about). It's interesting how people always equate the "good side" with being more defense-focused for some reason. This will always lead to the "evil side" being stronger and more populated and we have seen this time and time again in (western) MMOs. Probably some deeply rooted psychological thing in the American psyche and not really fitting for the Warhammer universe.

[Fey]

On live Order was the more offensive faction, with things like stacking crit buffs that destro did not have access to, leading shots and dirty tricks come to mind.

Destro was more defensive with things like crippling strikes to provide anti-crit, as well as more morale increasers to utilize defensive morales like sprout carapace, and thousand and one dark blessings.

This is difficult to balance particularly because buffs always land, whereas debuffs occasionally get resisted or otherwise fail to connect.

Of course this has all been changed/diluted in favor of faction balance, and a.general disdain for morale abilities.

[Brakh]

...
in tabletop ... dwarves are an extremely defensive race
...

Marching column + dwarf cart + rune of haste & urgency from anvil of doom + vanguard banner and suddnely sluggish dwarfs are in their opponents deployment zone turn 1 ready to wreak havoc