Help Needed: Making Grace WP Work Again

[DirkDaring]

While I wish they still worked like 3 years ago, can always wear healer set, and slot 2h hammer with healing stats on them, like the Sentinel Sledge as an example, it has willpower, toughness, initiative , and melee crit on it. or run a shield, and 1h to have access to 1h shield, or 2h abilities, but still be a mid field healer, using smite, and maybe fueled fury for righteous fury regen.

I used to run something similar on live with my 97 WP, was fun.

[Infexion]

I have also shelved the shield spec since the healer rework, having played it for almost 2 years before the rework.

It's way to clunky to play now and the healing output/dps outpout is 30-35% lower to what it was before.

Save yourself some headache and go back to book.

[Keula]

The biggest problem with the shield spec now is that it has the same weakness as charm, HD, specifically outgoing, so even if shield healers would recieve a numerical buff to healing, outgoing HD IB/BG would just become more popular to counteract it. And the charm spec was buffed by giving it real tactics to choose from, so I see little point to playing shield. Haven't done pve with it, gives AP to your party now like charm does, which sounds nice even with the aoe dmg loss, so probably still faster clear than pure charm and can switch to charm gear on some bosses if shield doesn't work on them, not like you lose anything speccing the shield mastery stuff anyways.

https://imgur.com/a/SwNAX0q

2021 Shield healing was so good, and sacrifice skill that damaged you but healed your party and you could move while casting it was PERFECT. Also 13pts grace 10s cast that added 300 absorb for ANY kind of ranged dmg every 1 sec = 3000 Ranged dmg absorb if you finished the cast=)

I'm 95.3% sure the self dmg group heal channel was not useable on the move. The ranged absorb channel was castable on the move, but the absorb part is whatever, it was the only anti root/snare so you'd use it for that. Also a screenshot of hitting triple dummies is a tad misleading, yes the triple hit healed/damaged a lot and with it gone the class is worse for sure, but it wasn't 3k in real world and the new 80 cost one can match(or exceed if no HD or hitting absorbs) it in terms of heal, ofc it costs 80 instead of 30 so much more expensive and better be good at that cost.

man back in those days i said you have ruined dps dok/wp to make these abominations of adding shield which i sitll dont agree with, but everything else was great.

The shield part of the shield spec was whatever, you really weren't blocking much with it with the old avoidance system. The only thing it did was balance the strikethrough for mirroring giving both 8%, cause one side having 10% strikethrough from GW(when did GW get buffed to have both parry and block strikethrough? i think it was before 2021, not sure though) would feel kinda bad cause you will occasionally hit front. Now with avoidance changes the shield might unironically do something, so that part is buffed funnily enough.

[Mvl130]

What are you talking about?

Snb dok/wp never existed.
It was created on this server from scratch, so your argument doesn't make sense.

Yes, it's true that it's not very effective now.
It got nerfed because it was too powerful before.
In ranked sc or regular sc, snb dok/wp did top heal and, note, top dmg. That was absolutely unacceptable.

I think the devs should fix this situation by changing the appropriate multipliers affecting dmg/heal. In such a way that snb dok/wp does dmg at the level it is now, but thanks to better multipliers, more heal.

There can't be a situation like before where it did both things at the same time.

As for book/chalice, healing is absolutely not boring, and after the healer changes, it requires the same attention and appropriate playstyle as other healers.

I disagree with the idea that just tweaking numbers is going to fix anything now, it is tweaking the numbers of the previous version of the spec which was necessary, not an entire "rework" that made it boring

You used to have decent damage and good healing under the correct circumnstances (narrowed space + guarded), I agree that the healing from lifetaps was over-tuned, and this should have been fixed, alongside the kitting issues the spec was enduring

Basically, you were healing for too much in the correct circumstances, and not at all in the incorrect ones, which was some kind of a weird "balance" ; the ideal fix would have been to simply make the spec less strong in its healing output in the correct circumstances, and not as weak in the incorrect ones

In this regard, the patch from last year was not a fix, but a huge nerf in terms of both efficiency and fun, but disguised as a rework ; the spec is still squishy and easy to kite, but also deals no damage while not healing ; just making the healing output a bit better by tweaking a few numbers is not going to fix much

[fatelvis]

he healing can be quite good, it needs a bunch of procs, though. With sigmars grace, united in prayer and exalted defense/sacrifical renewal you almost double the regular healing part. Benediction adds 35% to pius restoration or healing hands and words of wisdom can add another portion to it as well.
With another wp in the party you can even drop UIP and add charged fury for yet another healing proc on your target, giving divine assault up to 4 heal shots a swing.
The life taps are such a small part of this healing, it doesn't even matter what target you're hitting (which can be a pro actually).
Those heals are all affected by HDs, though, which can shut down your healing pretty hard, making you stand in the frontline doing nothing.
Increasing the life taps ratio (not the skill dmg) so it's actually worth picking targets would greatly increase the playability of melee healers.

[Illuminati]

What are you talking about?

Snb dok/wp never existed.
It was created on this server from scratch, so your argument doesn't make sense.

Yes, it's true that it's not very effective now.
It got nerfed because it was too powerful before.
In ranked sc or regular sc, snb dok/wp did top heal and, note, top dmg. That was absolutely unacceptable.

I think the devs should fix this situation by changing the appropriate multipliers affecting dmg/heal. In such a way that snb dok/wp does dmg at the level it is now, but thanks to better multipliers, more heal.

There can't be a situation like before where it did both things at the same time.

As for book/chalice, healing is absolutely not boring, and after the healer changes, it requires the same attention and appropriate playstyle as other healers.

I disagree with the idea that just tweaking numbers is going to fix anything now, it is tweaking the numbers of the previous version of the spec which was necessary, not an entire "rework" that made it boring

You used to have decent damage and good healing under the correct circumnstances (narrowed space + guarded), I agree that the healing from lifetaps was over-tuned, and this should have been fixed, alongside the kitting issues the spec was enduring

Basically, you were healing for too much in the correct circumstances, and not at all in the incorrect ones, which was some kind of a weird "balance" ; the ideal fix would have been to simply make the spec less strong in its healing output in the correct circumstances, and not as weak in the incorrect ones

In this regard, the patch from last year was not a fix, but a huge nerf in terms of both efficiency and fun, but disguised as a rework ; the spec is still squishy and easy to kite, but also deals no damage while not healing ; just making the healing output a bit better by tweaking a few numbers is not going to fix much

Agree. Tis why, and respect to the folks who put 100's of hours into the spec (Rydiak, etc.), it's too hard to balance given the limitations of the game and I hope the middle trees get reverted to pre-shield days. I did really like the channeled absorb / snare / root immunity ability that created a fun playstyle role between in a duo with another player. There were some good nuggets in the previous version. I shelved my shield equipment after the healer patch due to less fun/value.

[fatelvis]

Double post.

[Sinisterror]

The biggest problem with the shield spec now is that it has the same weakness as charm, HD, specifically outgoing, so even if shield healers would recieve a numerical buff to healing, outgoing HD IB/BG would just become more popular to counteract it. And the charm spec was buffed by giving it real tactics to choose from, so I see little point to playing shield. Haven't done pve with it, gives AP to your party now like charm does, which sounds nice even with the aoe dmg loss, so probably still faster clear than pure charm and can switch to charm gear on some bosses if shield doesn't work on them, not like you lose anything speccing the shield mastery stuff anyways.

https://imgur.com/a/SwNAX0q

2021 Shield healing was so good, and sacrifice skill that damaged you but healed your party and you could move while casting it was PERFECT. Also 13pts grace 10s cast that added 300 absorb for ANY kind of ranged dmg every 1 sec = 3000 Ranged dmg absorb if you finished the cast=)

I'm 95.3% sure the self dmg group heal channel was not useable on the move. The ranged absorb channel was castable on the move, but the absorb part is whatever, it was the only anti root/snare so you'd use it for that. Also a screenshot of hitting triple dummies is a tad misleading, yes the triple hit healed/damaged a lot and with it gone the class is worse for sure, but it wasn't 3k in real world and the new 80 cost one can match(or exceed if no HD or hitting absorbs) it in terms of heal, ofc it costs 80 instead of 30 so much more expensive and better be good at that cost.

man back in those days i said you have ruined dps dok/wp to make these abominations of adding shield which i sitll dont agree with, but everything else was great.

The shield part of the shield spec was whatever, you really weren't blocking much with it with the old avoidance system. The only thing it did was balance the strikethrough for mirroring giving both 8%, cause one side having 10% strikethrough from GW(when did GW get buffed to have both parry and block strikethrough? i think it was before 2021, not sure though) would feel kinda bad cause you will occasionally hit front. Now with avoidance changes the shield might unironically do something, so that part is buffed funnily enough.

Hmm my Wp was/is rr4x something and Beastlord 5pc + 3pc mercenary for the close 500 armour bonus. So very low lvl and bad gear. But In pug Scs with the old Divine Strike being spirit dmg + hitting 3 people and healing 150%? or 100% of dmg healed. That was Increased to 125% or 175% with the tactic that gave it the ability to hit 3 people. So if 3 hits all critted, it was easily over 2k aoe healing around your target, so didnt necessarily need Los, just defensive target.

Divine Strike to heal def target far away + Sigmars Radiance grp heal (easily 1k every hit) and this way you were most effective at healing, keeping grp in solid healing and Rend soul/Divine Assault was the best burst heal in the game in some point imo.

The absorb part definetely was not whatever imo, it was what you mention as well but didnt this give you dodge/disrupt or block even? and the absorb that refreshed itself every second, theoretically it could absorb 15k in that 10s because it affected your party as well. Sacrifice was usable while running for some time, but sadly they changed it. This logic that MeleeHealer needs to stand still = you are dead when you need to stand still... While casting Sacrifice you could proc quick escape and get away from enemy hitting you and close enough to your team be affected by your healing and another healer could heal you. This ability was crafted perfectly for Melee Healer and helped with the problem "if i cant hit something i cant heal something" And there was no HD for Melee heal/Lifetapping.

I think its cooldown was 20s? thats way too short if it was. 30s should have been the CD for the skill. Im not sure what you mean by 10% Strikethru from GW?
Wp in WaR Aor was the only class that had passive 10% parrystrikethru with 2hander and 10% BlockStrikethru as well all 2H melees got. 10% Parry strikethru for 2hander WP for melee healer reasons. RoR didnt get this... Dont remember when RoR Thought that this is unfair, So they dont understand the game is my read when this happened) and decided to give EVERY 2h MELEE ( lol do they hate range 2h users or wat?) that 10% Parry Strikethrough... This was/is mistake and all that leads to where we are now.

Can only ignore 50% of the avoidances? COME OOON why make this so goddamn complicated and insane actually. They needed to change Guard mechanic back to Aor = NO UNDEFENDABLE GUARD DMG ffs so obviously needed. Also, Morale avoidances always worked against any undefendable dmg ability, except another Morale that does dmg! So rampage didnt bypass morale avoidances or guard MECHANIC! nor did any other Undefendable ability. Morales tell us that Even in this way Original WAR Was oriented more to DMG than Defense, and game where we need to kill eachother and die to make the game fun for all of us(Man... Killboard Generation and the im afraid to die in a PVP game? Truely this game is not for that kind of people. Sadly i think this kind of people are in the RoR team + they also want to force you to play how they want. Insane lvl of Control problems.

When you remove all options to do anything this is what we have left now, vapid, boring aoe spam and goddamn Wl having the SpinSlaughter ability that just removed everyone in 3s doing 4 hits that all are aoe and can hit over 2k per crit...But still restricting Builds like RoR.builders - White Lion because why? for 10s Single target abilities were dangerous from Wl when pet dies and Suddenly Loner+Revenge Activate to 75% Dmg Increase, you could add Primal Fury and up it to 100% dmg increase for 10seconds, and 5s of useless time instead of 15s useless time when pet dies now. Oh i forgot to say, that OFC Wl is the only Melee dps who have 25% HD debuff proc in Wpns : D Choppa had this proc only in 1 one wpn, now blorc has it in subjugator wpn, but you shouldnt gatekeep procs in 1h or 2h and espesially not just per side. Procs are the best with crit to make this game work. Because Procs are the same for every class and are in Wpns(Or in boots/Gloves;) ) not your skills and this is a huge difference. ICD of Run away tactic should be 0s instead of 10s. Everyone should have Odjira in their boots instead of giving SH pounce and Wp/Dok shields... and mirror or remove every layer of doing PvP bit by bit so we dont even remember how great this game truely was.

All they needed to do was bring back 9 ae cap, 50% Aoe HD back to only Dps healers(there was a geat reason only Support Melee heal/Lifetapper classes had this power?) Remove Morale dmg cap and give all the old melee(or ranged class,tank,heal) Ranges back, I remember 65 ft aoe Shoot thru ya skill that was spammable 2s cast for Ranged SH and the only skill of this kind for destro. For some UNBELIEVABLE reaason they removed this and made it a morale 3.... Also they made MsH Melee dps with aoe dmg, and Asw single target dmg and it was exactly opposite what would have made sense to me and many more.

I also remember Melee/Tanks aoe 80ft Morales making Morale Bombing actually matter where you stand. 9sec aoe stagger was great when you roamed with 6-12 people. You Easily(if you played in any competive guild and coordination) killed 1/3 of the warband but so what? They will get ressed and try to kill 6-12 with 24 and back then kiting with warband was much more doable than today so you kited and killed them off and got great renown and FUN out of that.

I miss that WAR with 1.15s GCD so it was faster paced and you had 1-2 more skills to use in 10 seconds vs 1.5s GCD that ror now has=)

[Zebuscape]

I thought it would be super cool to play with this specialization, but it's not even viable in dungeons, let alone PvP. What was the point of LV with Dark Promise being useless? Only a rework will make it work.

PS: It's the character that looks best with a shield and hammer.