BUFF the BG already

[Culexus]

I'd like to see BG buffed to lean more heavily into its niche of being the best debuff/cc tank rather than the generic route of more damage. Changing its requirements to have to spec high crit to make its abilities work would be a start. Especially since RoR has 1000 ways to reduce crit and crit damage compared to gaining crit and Knight can do the same debuffs without requiring it.

[PieTreBlu]

Like many have already stated, quite a few of the abilities/tactics on the BG's left tree are still linked to an offensive stat (crit) which requires them to build more offensively (sacrificing defense) to work as a debuffing 2h tank. This is a design problem unrelated to their overall damage profile (though depending on the solution it could definitely affect it).
The easiest solution would be to turn all "on crit" to either "chance on hit" or to simply work on hit 100% of the times (much like KotBS's Arcing Swing/Overpowering Swings), at least if the devs want to mantain BG's current damage.

In general, and regardless of the design philosophy of the game, many people tend to gravitate towards 2h "tanks" to play an "offensive" plate armor class as damage gives a much more immediate feedback than things like protection value or buff/debuffs on top of making them feel generally more independent and impactful (at least in small scale fights).

I think it's inevitable that players expect a 2h tank to still being able to dish a decent amount of damage, at least relative to S&B tanks, though if the intention is to have BG/IB as low damage "utility" 2h tank compared to more bursty 2h tanks like SM that's for the devs to decide.

[DirkDaring]

I wish they would stop trying to remake the game, that another company actually created.
Every time that make changes they normally end up making the classes worse, or broke like the time in 2017 they tried to change stuff, but didn't understand the code, and ended up breaking half the classes then it took them 3 years to try and reverse what they broke.

I would have been happy, if they had stopped renown ay 80 as far as renown points which they did. give useless but fun cosmetic stuff like mount, weapon armor skins, or titles for ranks about 80. No super op armor sets with crazy high armor values. but left the rest of the classes mechanics alone. Having renown rank 80 mastery tree point, would have been good.

Them adding new events, weekly stuff is good, but changing everything simply because their vision isn`t the vision of the actual game creators is silly, I remember they didn`t like so many people playing 2h tanks, so they tried to remove 2h tanks ability to guard without a shield. type BS

Mythic created the game and classes like in DAOC, every class could play different specs and still be effective, not trying to pigeon hole everyone to play a certain way, and other options are nerfed to push people to not play other specs that they don`t like.

[CeeJay89]

I wish they would stop trying to remake the game, that another company actually created.
Every time that make changes they normally end up making the classes worse, or broke like the time in 2017 they tried to change stuff, but didn't understand the code, and ended up breaking half the classes then it took them 3 years to try and reverse what they broke.

I would have been happy, if they had stopped renown ay 80 as far as renown points which they did. give useless but fun cosmetic stuff like mount, weapon armor skins, or titles for ranks about 80. No super op armor sets with crazy high armor values. but left the rest of the classes mechanics alone. Having renown rank 80 mastery tree point, would have been good.

Them adding new events, weekly stuff is good, but changing everything simply because their vision isn`t the vision of the actual game creators is silly, I remember they didn`t like so many people playing 2h tanks, so they tried to remove 2h tanks ability to guard without a shield. type BS

Mythic created the game and classes like in DAOC, every class could play different specs and still be effective, not trying to pigeon hole everyone to play a certain way, and other options are nerfed to push people to not play other specs that they don`t like.

Yessssss! Give me back that 65ft, 3 enchantment shatter on the most popular Order tank so Destro has virtually only 2 healers!

The changes they've made aren't perfect, but I'll be damned if a lot aren't better than what we had on live.

[M0rw47h]

BG is DEBUFF tank.

What do they debuff that's so great? Because Chosen debuff toughness, resists, strength, etc. to all targets in range, passively. Oh, and wounds.

any weapon:
Wave of Scorn (AoE slow)
Crush the Weak (- crit chance)
Furious Howl (-10% block and parry)
Mind Killer with Soul Killer (-main stat, -50% outgoing heal)

2h:
Crimson Death (+10% chance to be crit);
Hastened Doom (wounds debuff passively).

CtW and Mind Killer are really potent, but they are smallscale stuff due to being ST.
If I would want to buff BG, I'd ask for tactics to make Crush the Weak and Choking Fury AoE.

[Rapzel]

BG is DEBUFF tank.

What do they debuff that's so great? Because Chosen debuff toughness, resists, strength, etc. to all targets in range, passively. Oh, and wounds.

any weapon:
Wave of Scorn (AoE slow)
Crush the Weak (- crit chance)
Furious Howl (-10% block and parry)
Mind Killer with Soul Killer (-main stat, -50% outgoing heal)

2h:
Crimson Death (+10% chance to be crit);
Hastened Doom (wounds debuff passively).

CtW and Mind Killer are really potent, but they are smallscale stuff due to being ST.
If I would want to buff BG, I'd ask for tactics to make Crush the Weak and Choking Fury AoE.

Horrific wound?

[Farrul]

5 pages debate over a small little buff (which is well deserved). Christ just give BG a dps buff to the channel since it was clearly overnerfed and hits like a wet noodle now.

It's just like the KOTBS discussion, people were arguing that a KOTBS dps buff would be a huge thin, then devs buffed Myrmidas fury more than we asked for and it proved to be completely within balance, not a problem at all.

The drama of this forum!

P.S. hopefully the 2H IB will be looked at as well, it sucks.(not channel, generally) .

[Sever1n]

Kotbs have huge stat booster sourses, runefang, m2, aura, wich allow him go ws. If you go WS on bg now u will end like at zero str. Option - "just buff channel" will not help, class need a lot of attention and smart solutions for his specs, especially 2h.

[JohnnyWayne]

5 pages debate over a small little buff (which is well deserved). Christ just give BG a dps buff to the channel since it was clearly overnerfed and hits like a wet noodle now.

It's just like the KOTBS discussion, people were arguing that a KOTBS dps buff would be a huge thin, then devs buffed Myrmidas fury more than we asked for and it proved to be completely within balance, not a problem at all.

The drama of this forum!

P.S. hopefully the 2H IB will be looked at as well, it sucks.(not channel, generally) .

I agree, but I will also say, that the last time I advocated for IB changes / buffs, people told me to be quiet instead because devs will nerf them instead of fixing the obvious issues (2h IB should get grudge by attacking). And I think they were not wrong - look at the poor slayer, lol.

[Florian90210]

BG lacks core stat buff in 1st tree, I would add weapon skill buff there + initiative for self and friend.