[IronBreaker] Grumble An’ Mutter

[vanbuinen77]

Its 2466 healing for a grp over 10 secs

[Alubert]

Just throwing in support for IB's to get Grumble An' Mutter back. Things that bring personality to classes are really important, GnM is missed.

Tanks need utility for the party, not healing for themselves (the only option you suggest is healing for OF/DP as well, because it would also have to apply to BG, but that could upset the solo/duo roam environment).
IB currently has a great AA damage skill for the party, and BG FTWK (useless except for zerg playstyle).

[Wdova]

Just throwing in support for IB's to get Grumble An' Mutter back. Things that bring personality to classes are really important, GnM is missed.

Tanks need utility for the party, not healing for themselves (the only option you suggest is healing for OF/DP as well, because it would also have to apply to BG, but that could upset the solo/duo roam environment).
IB currently has a great AA damage skill for the party, and BG FTWK (useless except for zerg playstyle).

"great AA damage skill for the party". I used it only few times when I had chance to run with other 2h tank, and 2 melee DPS. Going for AA you give up everything else.

Spoiler:

https://builder.returnofreckoning.com/c ... mt=1410&t=

It is useless in warband play, It is useless for solo and for duo, It´s useless with ranged dps party. Its usefull with 2xmelee dps + 1x2h tank combo. My damage with this build was so low (850-900 buffed strenght) that I rather run with SnB with this build. Your own armor debuff is low, Your damage outpoot is low, you have no on demand KD, you have no 10%dmg 5% parry tactic, you have no channel that is actualy your highest dps abbility to deal meaningfull asist damage.

While IB/BG has to play on piano, switch oathfriend and manage grudge, there is SM that debuff and buff at the same time while hit with proc or Knight that just walk in and debuff str, toughnes and/or resist passively and cannot be blocked or parry like all IB debuffs/buffs need to actualy HIT target. If IBs/BGs attacks are defended, there are no buffs for oathfriend and ST debuffs.

I´m not advocating GnM to come back, but both IB/BG classes need to be redesigned and put in line with rest of tank pack.

[nocturnalguest]

My damage with this build was so low (850-900 buffed strenght) that I rather run with SnB with this build.

Yes, absolutely.

There are two amazing options for that. 7/8 warlord, either full warlord for morale drain or like this https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 676/armory (sadly BO has no morale drain on full warlord meh) or even better is to run full blissful to be total utility bot. At least you will have conditional but still KD

[Illuminati]

My damage with this build was so low (850-900 buffed strenght) that I rather run with SnB with this build.

Yes, absolutely.

There are two amazing options for that. 7/8 warlord, either full warlord for morale drain or like this https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 676/armory (sadly BO has no morale drain on full warlord meh) or even better is to run full blissful to be total utility bot. At least you will have conditional but still KD

My issue with WL is that the 7x lowers your damage as well, even it is for 1 ability vs the target you are on. Still nice (5 seconds and procs often) for multiple people beating on you, but not as good as it was for solo =(

Not as big of a deal for BG since they hit low anyway, but if you're looking for big hits, you'll have a -50% hit vs your target (if they are hitting back) every 10 seconds or so. Probably nice right now in this grouped WH / WE meta =p

[nocturnalguest]

My issue with WL is that the 7x lowers your damage as well, even it is for 1 ability vs the target you are on. Still nice (5 seconds and procs often) for multiple people beating on you, but not as good as it was for solo =(

Not as big of a deal for BG since they hit low anyway, but if you're looking for big hits, you'll have a -50% hit vs your target (if they are hitting back) every 10 seconds or so. Probably nice right now in this grouped WH / WE meta =p

Yes, of course, you nailed it. I can see detaunt on a tank being completely op before nerfs, but those were fine days, full of fun. What triggers me is that logic behind changing it doesn't somehow same way applies into rest of op things still not nerfed. And i dont anyhow support nerf approach as balance design either
No logical sequence applies same way into everything.

[Gobtar]

That would be cool actually. But prob ib+dpswp will became even more nigthmare in smallscale.

I dont really care if that snb ib heresy will regenerate more in solo, but what will became of BG? Another epic jorney of destros wispering winds, and kiling last reason why snb bg may be needed in wb?

As a BG enjoyer, I dont think BG needs to have the self heal back to be honest. Feeding on Weakness %s could be changed to be something actually usable, and then BGs that are FtWK specced would have a comparable self heal to IBs, while still not giving up what is keeping them on the roster.