BUFF the BG already

[Sever1n]

U dont see diff between lvl of utility and how it applied, ways of delivering of damage, and keep spaming same info u did before.

I dont pretend to be oldest wisest BG around, but still it is a feedback from experienced to compare player that atleast had decensy to give it, (when none of elitist 6man wannabe gurus didnt.). I belive people that met me in game know from who this feedback coming, and ive met a lot.

From what i understand u didnt even readed normaly my suggestions, becouse you say i dont support buff for channel in my feedback. There was solutions that will have indirect buff to it, but for some reason you are blind to them.

Bringing up tougness debuff of bg as good one, its just next lvl after it was discussed here few pages before. Feels like you dont read this topic too.

Questions about bg that you keep avoid (i will not take answers like "smootly," after ton of people showed that they not in details), and telling their are wrong - they are rigth.

Does BG have normal lvl pressure in 2h spec and can deliver it properly when he need to be also maintaining guarding potential compared to to other tanks?
Is his lvl of buff comparable to what other tanks do?
What is his debuff /cc real value?
How hard ws change and nerf of warlord set hit BG dmg/surv, in comparison to other tanks?

They are indeed derailed from channel question, but they are part of answer on it. They was all answered but you keep pretend they dont matter, because they weren't calculated as u demand, on top u claim that only few chosen ones from yor personal list have rigth to answer them. Sorry if common sense and logic dont enough.

BG with zero kill dmg ( and check his talismans he cannod afford str to no drop dead in wl set in sec), and he did same dmg as SM with zero kill dmg. Dunno what you want to proof with it, but is looks like joke, selled as peak gameplay, that dont aswer anything and really poor example. Such links dont shown what was hapening in match and what tanks did there. Wanna compare? Ranked gear - dolls. It will answer alteast part of questions.

About balance team, kotbs ignoring, ws patch nuked bgs, recent WE/WH changes indicates a lot. Feels like they taking data not from best sources, so i belive feedbacks needed more the than even before, even if personally you dont believe it qualified enough. We all know how it ended for kotbs. Time will show how it ends for BG, and how good was my "wishlist". Proposals ilustrated enough , and devs dont demant in them what u claim. If they have additional questions, i will happily add more feedback.

This was last answer to you in this topic, you had oportunity to change my view, but failed, and i will not tolerate demagogy more. This post started to go in circles.

[nocturnalguest]

anyone know if the crit multiplier is the same across all tanks for channels? too tired to test it.

If i understand you correctly then its the same for all of them - random number from 35 to 55 range, community uses averaged 45 for simple calculations. BO due to racial tactic can increase its crit damage, IB channel has inbuilt crit chance increaser but crit multiplier is universal for every ability. So there is no difference in this number.

Spoiler:

U dont see diff between lvl of utility and how it applied, ways of delivering of damage, and keep spaming same info u did before.

I dont pretend to be oldest wisest BG around, but still it is a feedback from experienced to compare player that atleast had decensy to give it, (when none of elitist 6man wannabe gurus didnt.). I belive people that met me in game know from who this feedback coming, and ive met a lot.

From what i understand u didnt even readed normaly my suggestions, becouse you say i dont support buff for channel in my feedback. There was solutions that will have indirect buff to it, but for some reason you are blind to them.

Bringing up tougness debuff of bg as good one, its just next lvl after it was discussed here few pages before. Feels like you dont read this topic too.

Questions about bg that you keep avoid (i will not take answers like "smootly," after ton of people showed that they not in details), and telling their are wrong - they are rigth.

Does BG have normal lvl pressure in 2h spec and can deliver it properly when he need to be also maintaining guarding potential compared to to other tanks?
Is his lvl of buff comparable to what other tanks do?
What is his debuff /cc real value?
How hard ws change and nerf of warlord set hit BG dmg/surv, in comparison to other tanks?

They are indeed derailed from channel question, but they are part of answer on it. They was all answered but you keep pretend they dont matter, because they weren't calculated as u demand, on top u claim that only few chosen ones from yor personal list have rigth to answer them. Sorry if common sense and logic dont enough.

BG with zero kill dmg ( and check his talismans he cannod afford str to no drop dead in wl set in sec), and he did same dmg as SM with zero kill dmg. Dunno what you want to proof with it, but is looks like joke, selled as peak gameplay, that dont aswer anything and really poor example. Such links dont shown what was hapening in match and what tanks did there. Wanna compare? Ranked gear - dolls. It will answer alteast part of questions.

About balance team, kotbs ignoring, ws patch nuked bgs, recent WE/WH changes indicates a lot. Feels like they taking data not from best sources, so i belive feedbacks needed more the than even before, even if personally you dont believe it qualified enough. We all know how it ended for kotbs. Time will show how it ends for BG, and how good was my "wishlist". Proposals ilustrated enough , and devs dont demant in them what u claim. If they have additional questions, i will happily add more feedback.

This was last answer to you in this topic, you had oportunity to change my view, but failed, and i will not tolerate demagogy more. This post started to go in circles.

Lets talk about that then. If i dont understand something then there is a chance someone else more important will not understand too so its a great indicator for the need to refine suggestions made.

Like i already said multiple times, if we talk 2h then BG applies its utility thru same way as kotbs (pressing an ability that is tweaked by tactic). For BG its tied into BG requiring a crit to wounds debuff while most important part goes thru as is (+10% chance to crit), its kinda fine as is because BG can utilise +15% conditional crit (its also conditional for IB too) and has more control (press something to spend hate) with it unlike IB who has passive mechanics (which is fine as well because IB has its damage tied into mechanics). Another important utility is punt, obviously its very limited with conditions due to a fact that it has to be balanced, as its best disconnect from guard like i mention multiple times, on a straight line without obstacles it disconnects for 8 seconds while all other punts for 5 (important note, first 1-1,5 seconds of those 8 and 5 target still has guard due to guards range). Obviously you can be skilled and increase those 8 seconds thru smart usage of terrain or be unlucky/lack skill and lessen this number due to angles/obstacles/timing, its all the same, same logic for all tanks, but BGs one is plain mechanically and mathematically better. Such punt alone can justify a spot in a group depending on the curcumstainces.

If we talk SnB, then its utility is either turtle mid tree, which is lazy ass and applied with button press, i already mentioned it shines (you asked me yourself, where BG shine, i tell you, s3 city siege) in city with its OP M4 that only somewhat counterable with excom from WH. But nothing keeps champions top as BG, you always want BG as champ on destro, no tank comes even close. WW is applied same way as SM, no difference. Many folks already mentioned what classes benefit from it big times.

I dont question your skills btw, nor i question you as a player, obviously you give alot of valuable information in various threads and generally very knowledgable, but exactly this case is different, because you usually use context of gameplay, but here you didnt. If i knew that you are experienced in tryhard cities (which is uncheckable atm as there is no records for anyone) or part of some 6v6 group i could take your words as granted, but i cant in BG case, especially if i myself dont have enough BG expertise to be aboslutely sure hence i question claims here according to my game mechanic knowledge.

Lets go with toughness debuff, indeed chosen will run one more commonly then kotbs, but ST vs group debuffs are already put in line and unified. What is an issue here?
Also "no you!", i read, believe me, its just that i dont even have a tiny bit of something to discuss with you on a matter, i see no valuable info that we could talk about and ask you to provide it. Here viewtopic.php?t=60144&start=60#p590230
Ill quote myself even

Maybe indeed, a bit of mirroring would help, with some additional hate tied buff into ini/ws, as Florian mentioned. Or all at once, untie HD of crit (kotbs mirror), put st WS self/DP buff into PS and add ini into ET. Could be a nice start imo. If channel to be changed, then it needs a nerf into amount of hits as the very minimum, so no more then 5 hits.

But BGs damage is not an issue of a class. It, like any other tank already have options to fluff scoreboards if one wish so. Making changes so BG will fluff easier and better is literally a waste of devs/balance team time.

I mention almost the same "wishlist" as yours, but now i see nothing to back it up beside my feelings and none of "buff me please" people add any info. Why it should be me, cmon?!

Questions. Ok, point me exactly which question i specifically dodge? I see 0 questions dodged by me here. Of course wrong one, you ask "how smooth", what the hell do you mean even? BG has hate pumps, it has spenders, what is not smooth in your view? But please, just plain simple technical answers with context, not this "everyone knows". Spoiler: i reread this thread and two threads you created like i dunno 10 times already, i see no clear answer there. also none of my questions are anyhow commented or answered btw

1. Does BG have normal lvl pressure in 2h spec and can deliver it properly when he need to be also maintaining guarding potential compared to to other tanks?
Is his lvl of buff comparable to what other tanks do?
Yes, it does, its pressure is on par with kotbs and chosen. I measure pressure by what debuffs it provides plus assist damage, i exclude overall scoreboard damage as it shows nothing at all, there is only one indirect indicator for it - if scoreboard overall damage is x2/3 higher then rest (slayer case before nerfs, shield healers case before nerfs) and also overall dmg is under player control, there are many tools to gimp yourself on many chars to fluff scoreboard. But its not the case. Why i use 6v6 matches as example? They are less random then regular SCs.
BG maintains guarding just fine, it has great passsive tactic which stacks with weapon proc, a luxury many tanks cant afford (e.g. IB, kotbs).
Yes comparable. Values are in line. What exactly bothers you here?
Yes, that one ranked match i link doesnt clearly prove dmg pressure, because obviously BG was punted then they scored kills and killboard is actually crap, only real data parsing is solid prove (FYI i didnt ask you to provide it, you made up that i demand something like this), i dont have one of my own, because like i said i personally havent done a single serious match as BG. But taking into account its not insignias farming when there are 12 ppl from same guild "just practicing" and its clearly a real match we can use overall damage done in that particular game as indirect reference number, chosen is parry stacked there with ini talis, BG full warlord with talis mixed (sadly atm its snb, should have taken a SS so we are clear on that), now and then getting -50% dmg reduction on crimson drops, aoe snare etc while still in serious game doing almost the same damage as meta parry stacking chosen. Example i linked is pretty good actually, but fairly enough is not a crystal clear overall evidence of course.
If i will have spare time i may fish you better one (or the opposite, you fish me much worse one debunking my points), but in terms of dmg math you can just believe my words, i often track it with parsers and obviously i cant prove it for you with my parses of regular SCs because that data is corrupt and flawed (so i can easily cherrypick) due to random nature of regular SCs.

2. What is his debuff /cc real value?
Punt i mentioned with numbers, crimson is obvious too. What debuff, cc you want to know about?

3. How hard ws change and nerf of warlord set hit BG dmg/surv, in comparison to other tanks?
Incredibly hard, BG was one of the most benefiting tanks for warlord. But rest did suffer same way, now any tank has to pick offensive/defensive gear/talis. Cant have both like it was, ive said that already multiple times. So what? How it will help us to refine suggestions?

In regards for ranked gear - dolls, yeah, thats clear comparison but only for pure damage. It will not show rest of things. Ideal comparison are party DPS/HPS curves vs. enemy party curves, but this is completely unrealistic to happen as you need to force 12 people to parse and then someone has to combine that. I have no resolve to make it happen nor i personally feel the need for that. And dolls will not show us whole picture. As for that SC ive mentioned above, kill damage data is crap sadly, it records only frame where target goes from 100 till 0 reseting if target gets to 100 again. Obviously during 2 kills in that SC BG was absent (punted).

Yes, time will tell. But kotbs issue i mentioned many times before. Im glad solo guys can now ruin regular SCs, i dont mind that. But you guys talk here about damage alot, but meta kotbs dmg havent been increased anyhow. It just got even more utility/support on a class that is already overloaded with it. If i missunderstand you on this, tell me.