WElf Nerf

[SuperStar]

I think wichelf still needs a little balancing.
I looked at the data for the ability damage formula and compared it to other classes. I would like to draw attention to a few things that are causing the problem.

1. wichbrew
Problem:
Based dmg 280 + 1.5*Damage bonus +1*weapon dmg
The base dmg is huge, considering that it's Corporeal damage, it can't be removed because it's not an enchant or blessing, and neither armor nor toughness have any effect on it. Combined with the Frenzied Mayhem tactic, this increases by another 25%.
For comparison, the
which hunter Burn Away Lies ability base damage 235
is not Corporeal damage, armor affects it, it's a 9-second dot, not a huge burst dmg, an ailment that can be cleansed in theory (as far as I remember, it couldn't be cleansed and it was magic dmg), and on top of that, the target must be facing away from you.
For all these reasons, I think it's obvious that intervention is necessary.
My suggestions:
the base damage should be much lower, half as much, or it should not be corporeal damage
Or there should be a condition that it only works from behind.

2. Kiss of Death
Problem:
180 Corporeal damage, a 25% chance Anytime you hit an enemy
I'm not sure, but as far as I remember, unfortunately, this also works on auto attacks.
We are also talking about Corporeal damage, also base damage. It is not affected by toughness or armor. The whichelf has a weapon with 1.5 autoattack speed, and the Mark of Hellebron tactic is also available
You have been blessed by Hellebron. Your auto attack speed is increased by 50% for 10 seconds after the successful use of any one of your Frenzies. And then there's the auto attack speed increase from items. This is a huge problem because the kiss of death can occur every quarter of a second, which is its internal cooldown. A mercilessly low autoattack continuously procs 180 Corporeal damage, which is unaffected by toughness or armor. On top of that, it heals the whichelf and applies a heal buff.
For comparison, WH Blessed Bullets of Purity Whenever you hit an enemy with your Executions, you deal an additional 375 Spirit damage, which I also consider to be a lot, as neither toughness nor armor can counter it, but it has a 2-second cooldown and requires a minimum of 70 AP. The welf variant is free and triggers continuously with autoattacks.
My suggestion: radically reduce the base damage and/or make it a non-magic attack, scale it with the damage bonus, and set the base damage to 50 base damage.
The internal cooldown of Kiss of Death should not be a quarter of a second, but at least 1 second. It should not be triggered by autoattack. The Mark of Hellebron tactic is also worth considering: Your auto attack speed is increased by 50% for 10 seconds after the successful use of any one of your Frenzies. Let's admit that doing Frenzy is not a big deal, you would do it anyway. In comparison, WH needs to hit crit for this, which is significantly more difficult than a frenzy.
Inquisitor's Fury: Each time you critically hit an enemy, your autoattack speed will be increased by 50% for 10 seconds.
I suggest modifying Mark of Hellebron so that it also activates on crit.

3. Enfeebling Strike
Problem:
Your target will take 168 Corporeal damage every time they move for 15 seconds
The base damage is 168 Corporeal damage. It does not affect armor or toughness. It does not require crit chance or high strength. This is 1740 magic damage. It's not much, but it should be annoying enough. The base damage should be very low, but it should scale with damage bonus, be able to crit, or be magic damage.

In summary:
Overall, the witchelf has access to attacks with very high base damage, complemented by tactics that are also very easy to access, with terrifying synergy. What's more, everything I've mentioned here is on one branch, so you don't even have to choose, you get it all from one branch. Besides, you don't have to worry about defensive regeneration with the offensive main stat, because the base damage is already huge (average stability costs 100-150 base damage in AP and physical damage against armor, welf 180 magic damage proccs every quarter second for free, which heals him and heals his enemy).
This has been a major problem for years. I hoped that the melee DPS balance patch would fix it, but I don't think it did.
The basic principle should be that those who use regeneration, defense, armor and toughness talismans, regeneration jewelry and chests, do not invest in crit chance, do not invest in the main stat, should not be able to produce high damage.
And yes, Kiss of Death is huge, 180 magic damage for free, every quarter of a second, which heals him and heals you, and neither armor nor toughness can counter it.
Witchbrew, which is 420*6 = 2520 in 3 seconds minimum, which neither armor nor toughness can counter, you only get a small reduction in resist. You get this fdmaget with 0 str and zero crit chance, which is all a wichelf can do. I think this is absurd.
And it's irrelevant that it's not a solo game. That's exactly why it's incomprehensible why there is such an overpowered solo spec. You have to catch up with the WB party, and even those who don't play solo or in small groups, healers, and tanks have surely encountered this problem. There is a class that has everything, so you don't have to make any decisions, just put out more rgen or armor or toughness, because you get dmget for free and a significant part of self-heal as well.

Those who dont invest in offensive stats shouldnt be able to do dmg, they should be only debuffer/buffer.

[Slowbro]

Don't nerf everything that is fun. If every class has another class they can kill easily everyone can be happy. So instead of nerfing WE which are fairly fun at the moment. Buff some of the other classes so they can kill them. Witch elfs are so popular because they can select 1vs1 but they have not a lot of predators that make their life hard. WH which are supposed to do that, got nerfed for 1.5 years then got a minor buff compared to WE in the melee DPS patch and now already back to nerf again. They can't really challenge Def WEs. I hear Def WL can do but one class is not enough. So yeah buff 2 more classes so they can kill WE easy. Keep some other classes that WE can kill easy.

[Yellowemperor]

I think wichelf still needs a little balancing.
I looked at the data for the ability damage formula and compared it to other classes. I would like to draw attention to a few things that are causing the problem.

1. wichbrew
Problem:
Based dmg 280 + 1.5*Damage bonus +1*weapon dmg
The base dmg is huge, considering that it's Corporeal damage, it can't be removed because it's not an enchant or blessing, and neither armor nor toughness have any effect on it. Combined with the Frenzied Mayhem tactic, this increases by another 25%.
For comparison, the
which hunter Burn Away Lies ability base damage 235
is not Corporeal damage, armor affects it, it's a 9-second dot, not a huge burst dmg, an ailment that can be cleansed in theory (as far as I remember, it couldn't be cleansed and it was magic dmg), and on top of that, the target must be facing away from you.
For all these reasons, I think it's obvious that intervention is necessary.
My suggestions:
the base damage should be much lower, half as much, or it should not be corporeal damage
Or there should be a condition that it only works from behind.

Yeah, everyone who is saying 'bal is not a huge burst' is trolling or isn't playing the game.

[SuperStar]

I think wichelf still needs a little balancing.
I looked at the data for the ability damage formula and compared it to other classes. I would like to draw attention to a few things that are causing the problem.

1. wichbrew
Problem:
Based dmg 280 + 1.5*Damage bonus +1*weapon dmg
The base dmg is huge, considering that it's Corporeal damage, it can't be removed because it's not an enchant or blessing, and neither armor nor toughness have any effect on it. Combined with the Frenzied Mayhem tactic, this increases by another 25%.
For comparison, the
which hunter Burn Away Lies ability base damage 235
is not Corporeal damage, armor affects it, it's a 9-second dot, not a huge burst dmg, an ailment that can be cleansed in theory (as far as I remember, it couldn't be cleansed and it was magic dmg), and on top of that, the target must be facing away from you.
For all these reasons, I think it's obvious that intervention is necessary.
My suggestions:
the base damage should be much lower, half as much, or it should not be corporeal damage
Or there should be a condition that it only works from behind.

Yeah, everyone who is saying 'bal is not a huge burst' is trolling or isn't playing the game.

You have 5 post on forum so based on this you dont play much. But idk.

If you wanna do big dmg with bal you have to put on offensive stat strenght and crit chamce and crit dmg. And its still go aganist armor aganist toughness and it can be cleansed and the enemy can prepare it because is 9sec.

The welf do this 2520 dmg with zero i repeat 0 str 0 crit chance this is why its absurd.

No risk but hight reward/gift for nothing

[Sinisterror]

omfg now these people who dont play classes they complain about make BALANCE suggestions based on Dalen ability viewer ie not actually from gameplay just from looking at specs etc... And you dont realize that it would be a buff if WE got 50% AA haste from Crit. And 4 tactics of Welf - Masterful Treachery, Tob, Flanking, Frenzied mayhem NONE of them increase dmg of Witchbrew atm, they all should though.

Then you compare things that have no relation to eachother, just picking random skill from random class to try to make NERFING suggestions. Witchbrew,Riposte,Leonine Frenzy should all do crit dmg like it worked for 15 yrs. 250ms for ALL PROCS is the standard, but for WELF they shouldnt proc from Auto attacks right? Then change ALL dmg procs to work like that.

That someone even suggests these things is just depressing to me. EDIT; You claim things like its 70 ap when WH uses Finisher : D I have no clue where you could even get to this number, but Bullets only take 20 Ap when you activate them... Not when you use Finisher. Great learning youve done on your journey to to rr 70!

Witch Hunter has EXACT same thing as feebling strike, but only welf version needs to be removed right? Come on...

[SuperStar]

Don't nerf everything that is fun. If every class has another class they can kill easily everyone can be happy. So instead of nerfing WE which are fairly fun at the moment. Buff some of the other classes so they can kill them. Witch elfs are so popular because they can select 1vs1 but they have not a lot of predators that make their life hard. WH which are supposed to do that, got nerfed for 1.5 years then got a minor buff compared to WE in the melee DPS patch and now already back to nerf again. They can't really challenge Def WEs. I hear Def WL can do but one class is not enough. So yeah buff 2 more classes so they can kill WE easy. Keep some other classes that WE can kill easy.

If every class could do huge magic base dmg without invest offensive stat, basicly this dmg come with zero str zero crit chance zero crit dmg it is just a free gift. Full regen armored def toughness welf can do it with 0 str.
So of every class can do this it would be a very str game imo.

[SuperStar]

omfg now these people who dont play classes they complain about make BALANCE suggestions based on Dalen ability viewer ie not actually from gameplay just from looking at specs etc... And you dont realize that it would be a buff if WE got 50% AA haste from Crit. And 4 tactics of Welf - Masterful Treachery, Tob, Flanking, Frenzied mayhem NONE of them increase dmg of Witchbrew atm, they all should though.

Then you compare things that have no relation to eachother, just picking random skill from random class to try to make NERFING suggestions. Witchbrew,Riposte,Leonine Frenzy should all do crit dmg like it worked for 15 yrs. 250ms for ALL PROCS is the standard, but for WELF they shouldnt proc from Auto attacks right? Then change ALL dmg procs to work like that.

That someone even suggests these things is just depressing to me

First of all.
I have every class min rr 70. (I dont have engi amd sh)

It makes me depressed when someone gets personal because they have no argumemts, but we are different.

Welf has everything no risk at all, no invest in offense and has a high reward/gift.
I understand you enjoy it but its not fair at all and all of us know it and feel it.
2520 dmg in 3 sec with 0 str 0crit is not oke.
High risk high reward. Or you can be regen armored toughness welf but you should only do debuff and buffs.

Also i think we talk about the same thing
Reduce the base dmg drasticly and let them crit.
Its a fair thing. Free high base dmg is not. Thats while everybody has problem with welf its basily cheat.

[Farrul]

Don't nerf everything that is fun. If every class has another class they can kill easily everyone can be happy. So instead of nerfing WE which are fairly fun at the moment. Buff some of the other classes so they can kill them. Witch elfs are so popular because they can select 1vs1 but they have not a lot of predators that make their life hard. WH which are supposed to do that, got nerfed for 1.5 years then got a minor buff compared to WE in the melee DPS patch and now already back to nerf again. They can't really challenge Def WEs. I hear Def WL can do but one class is not enough. So yeah buff 2 more classes so they can kill WE easy. Keep some other classes that WE can kill easy.

The balance issue with ''Def WE's '' is not 1vs1 and neither should devs balance this based on a 1vs1 class matchup, since it excludes too many aspects of what the spec/class can do in other contexts/situations. It's a small scale balance issue for sure with ''Def WE'' but not the rare 1vs1 encounter that needs balancing.

As a main order player for many years the class to fear the most is a well played Magus in 1vs1 imho, even back when Def WE was a true abomination before WB nerf.

It seems few players are skilled enough to make the most use out of Magus, a Magus can be anywhere from easy to very challenging depending on who controls it.

Def WE is brainless easy ''auto win'' in comparison but not the best destro has to offer in terms of 1vs1. Here enjoy .

https://youtu.be/V_YU0bK1r2U?t=77

[SuperStar]

Don't nerf everything that is fun. If every class has another class they can kill easily everyone can be happy. So instead of nerfing WE which are fairly fun at the moment. Buff some of the other classes so they can kill them. Witch elfs are so popular because they can select 1vs1 but they have not a lot of predators that make their life hard. WH which are supposed to do that, got nerfed for 1.5 years then got a minor buff compared to WE in the melee DPS patch and now already back to nerf again. They can't really challenge Def WEs. I hear Def WL can do but one class is not enough. So yeah buff 2 more classes so they can kill WE easy. Keep some other classes that WE can kill easy.

The balance issue with ''Def WE's '' is not 1vs1 and neither should devs balance this based on a 1vs1 class matchup, since it excludes too many aspects of what the spec/class can do in other contexts/situations. It's a small scale balance issue for sure with ''Def WE'' but not the rare 1vs1 encounter that needs balancing.

As a main order player for many years the class to fear the most is a well played Magus in 1vs1 imho, even back when Def WE was a true abomination before WB nerf.

It seems few players are skilled enough to make the most use out of Magus, a Magus can be anywhere from easy to very challenging depending on who controls it.

Def WE is brainless easy ''auto win'' in comparison but not the best destro has to offer in terms of 1vs1. Here enjoy .

https://youtu.be/V_YU0bK1r2U?t=77

You are right but like you said not many know how to play them.
Def engi and def magus still has the same problem very high base magic dmg.
But we didnt get rdps balance patch yet. Very few play them you can just ignore them and run away.
But yeah its a big problem in every class who has a free high base dmg and can put everythinf on regen toughness and armor.
No risk, high reward.

Also a def magus is strong and can cc and kite but usually sooner or later die because more order arrived. We cannot say that about welf they just pop up in full regen tanky build do the insane dmg with zero offense stats and go stealth. These is why the welf coz this huge frutration

[CeeJay89]

Just. Remove. Pounce. Then call it a day.