Maybe a nerf sledgehammer to WE isnt a good idea?

[abezverkhiy]

I am ready to trade BaL for a stealth boost ability that would allow me to stay hidden longer than 30 seconds

[M0rw47h]

Personaly I think WH/WE should get two tactics:

Tactic 1
Stealth disabled.
You deal +25% damage.

Tactic 2
Stealth has unlimited time, after leaving stealth you deal -50% damage for 5 seconds.

[Kyouaku]

Here's another fight from today:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/68017228

I didnt even bother using sac stab and beat a 80+ SW, see how just peirce armor hits harder then sac stab often does? lol. No needing to be behind someone BS too

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/67875681

Look here, sac stab does just 500 more then black lotus blade, the skill that just reduces inc healing lol

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/67607273

Look at that fat 1200 damage vrs a 81 SW....

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/67541260

And that big 1600 damage vrs another SW...

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/68014751

Look at that big 1200 damage vrs a rr55 slayer...



Anysort of nerfs to sac stab is nothing short of insanity IMO

It needs a buff more then anything....

If they do any sort of nerf to it, I ask that they make the sov +2 skillpoints to path of treachery be put into suffering instead, because the skill is barely worth it atm, and doing 13/13 builds into treachery will just not be worth over witchbrew at all now

In what universe does sac stab even as it is now unerfed make any sense compared to WH's burn away lies....?

[Krima]

Here's another fight from today:

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/68017228

I didnt even bother using sac stab and beat a 80+ SW, see how just peirce armor hits harder then sac stab often does? lol. No needing to be behind someone BS too

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/67875681

Look here, sac stab does just 500 more then black lotus blade, the skill that just reduces inc healing lol

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/67607273

Look at that fat 1200 damage vrs a 81 SW....

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/67541260

And that big 1600 damage vrs another SW...

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/68014751

Look at that big 1200 damage vrs a rr55 slayer...



Anysort of nerfs to sac stab is nothing short of insanity IMO

It needs a buff more then anything....

If they do any sort of nerf to it, I ask that they make the sov +2 skillpoints to path of treachery be put into suffering instead, because the skill is barely worth it atm, and doing 13/13 builds into treachery will just not be worth over witchbrew at all now

In what universe does sac stab even as it is now unerfed make any sense compared to WH's burn away lies....?

I’ve tested the new SS on the PTS, and its percentage-based armor penetration doesn’t stack with your own armor penetration from gear, jewelry, or Weapon Skill. That seems very weird.

For real DPS, I guess WEs will go back to AW + WB with four pieces of Triumph for the Toughness debuff. After so many years, why is it still so difficult to move away from AW + Witchbrew?

We had some good moments with Bleeding Edge + RA. That build was nice and had a lot of synergy: you invested in Weapon Skill, got strong Slice hits, and everything worked well together. But yeah, the Path of Carnage is a mess at the moment.

Increased Pain, ToB, Flanking, and Brute Force. Renown points into Crit, Futile Strikes, and Parry. Toughness liniment with Crit. AW + WB spam is once again the best build, as far as I can see.

[Kyouaku]

Nerfing sac stabs base damage alone would be absurd, it doesnt hit that hard 80% of the time(Sov WEs have 40% crit chance, and to crit two times in a row is 16%...and MUCH lowerif the person builds anti crit, witch is common....)

Nerfing it's armor pen as the dev stated they want to do would make it's damage abysmally low if not used at 5, why is that necisary at all...?

What is wong with a snare that builds up to 10 seconds? How is that over powered at alll....? It's a very expensive to buy ability with career points, normally locking you out of witchbrew or on your kness unless you use the sov/WL +2, and the +2 is costly to run in stat tradeoffs from mixing sets.

It's reasonable as it is, and it can use a buff if anything...

[Panzer80]

Oh no. I'm seeing the dreaded request for mirrors, again. The issue is that WH is a front-loaded class with a more streamlined design than WE. WE are much more diverse in their ability. With the last "patch" the devs went after multiple aspects of WE's styles. It doesn't necessarily mean those areas are perfectly balanced. WE should never have the kind of total damage ability as WH since WE's strengths are more spread out (or were...) My WH out preforms on the target dummy compared to my WE for example. but my WE would totally own my WH in a 1v1. Also, there's irony in that the absorb tactic that everyone complains about is really the fault of the crit obsessed meta. If you want to kill WE's who don't want to die in a KD then, get this, change your build and not everyone else's... I would still like to see 15 ft range max on WE's on your knees and blades spin but the damage increased by 35% ish, but that probably just me.

[Kyouaku]

Oh no. I'm seeing the dreaded request for mirrors, again.

Well, they are taking away or seriosuly nerfing pretty much all the nice stuff WE has and doing next to nothing to WH, so yes, giving the WE stuff makes sense. What's wrong with 60 second witchbrew? The skill can't crit and does zero damage int he gcd you use it.... why not let it stay longer?

The nerfs to sac stab are absurd

And they are nerfing the WEs super nice defensive tactic

Those are major hits to the WE, while the WH is jsut having a tactic that they often dont use nefed by 10% for one skill lol. Dear god. And WHs are already such a better class in organized pvp as it is....

This heavy handed and unnecessary nerf stragey just is abig mistake, and makes me feel like the person(s) behind it must run F-tier order premades and got beat by WEs or something lol. If you run good order groups, you know WE damage is not OP....far from it... Out of my last like 40 SCs ive lost like 5 on order lol

And of those 5 losses, im including games like this where we just where out capped because we just wanted to fight lol. https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... a83aa0e0b6

There where two of those "Super OP We must nerf them" WEs in that SC....so scary....please help us devs....

And I think Devilbaby and okami are good too, their class is not OP....

DPS WE doesnt need a nerf. Leave sac stab out of it. Nerf the solo WE, that's fair and good for the game

[Slowbro]

I have an 80+ WE and they were S tier in 1vs1 even before the mdps buff for WE. Nerf was predicted and will probably put it into A tier.
WH on the other side was B Tier and will become C tier after rdps nerf patch and a nerf it is for both classes.
Complaining about SS and claiming damage below 1.3k is insane. I can easily do 4.5k double crits on full armored targets. Yes chance is not 100% but also yes in glass canon spec you can kill someone in 3s KD. As mentioned 1000 times before Bal is mitigated by armor and the meta is armor and anti crit. Also it can be cleansed which people actually do.
Tldr: WE nerf was appropriate it's still good. WH nerf was inappropriate and class is even more trash now. Stealth duration/hit counter nerf is retarded makes both classes unplayable.

[Panzer80]

Oh no. I'm seeing the dreaded request for mirrors, again.

Well, they are taking away or seriosuly nerfing pretty much all the nice stuff WE has and doing next to nothing to WH, so yes, giving the WE stuff makes sense. What's wrong with 60 second witchbrew? The skill can't crit and does zero damage int he gcd you use it.... why not let it stay longer?

The nerfs to sac stab are absurd

And they are nerfing the WEs super nice defensive tactic

Those are major hits to the WE, while the WH is jsut having a tactic that they often dont use nefed by 10% for one skill lol. Dear god. And WHs are already such a better class in organized pvp as it is....

This heavy handed and unnecessary nerf stragey just is abig mistake, and makes me feel like the person(s) behind it must run F-tier order premades and got beat by WEs or something lol. If you run good order groups, you know WE damage is not OP....far from it... Out of my last like 40 SCs ive lost like 5 on order lol

And of those 5 losses, im including games like this where we just where out capped because we just wanted to fight lol. https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... a83aa0e0b6

There where two of those "Super OP We must nerf them" WEs in that SC....so scary....please help us devs....

And I think Devilbaby and okami are good too, their class is not OP....

DPS WE doesnt need a nerf. Leave sac stab out of it. Nerf the solo WE, that's fair and good for the game

I didn't see any problem with 60 sec WBrew.

I've pointed out in past posts that sacrifices rewarded and septic blade are the antitheses to WH's repel blasphemy and crit tactics. If they continue to nerf this aspect of WE, then they will be changing the dynamic between WH/WE, which will lead to boring mirrors. I'm not a fan of that.

Yeah, WH's are more front loaded and better in parties. Most WH's DO use that tactic atm.

I'm not sure we're in disagreement. I think SS being more deeply implemented into the career mechanic is ok, but other things may need adjusted. I'd still like to see WE On Your Knees and Blade Spin range reduce but their damage increased and a reason to keep the core finishers on your bar. Given that they removed the 100% armor pen from SS I'd also like to see Swift Movements and Armor Pierce conflict resolved. WH's middle tree bottom tactic needs to make incendiary shot range increase and CD reduced and Atonement tactic changed to remove the crit to BAL and increase ending damage tick. WH needs more incentive for middle tree.

[Nauht]

Congrats Order... you played yourself.

My WE was a glass cannon burst but with SS nerf, I'm going back to WB. And guess which spec synergizes best with WB? Yup, regen. So add one more regen WE to the fight.

30s WB? You'll be dead by then.. or me. And I'd have 5 blood-lust ready for next WB anyway.

My WH.. nothing will change. Losing crit when my crit is already high for BAL is nothing as the damage was untouched.

For both, 30s stealth will hurt, ngl.