[PTS] Magus a bit extreme

[Farrul]

The poitn you should have mentioned is auto attacks. Casters do not get them. That is the supposed reason why weaponskill is valid.

This was really debated to death back in days, the logical conclusion was that Auto Attack on phys classes could only justify this point if the overall DPS was higher because of if ( compared to Magic user). Then you also have Magic classes with auto attacks further complicating things.

Well since we are discussing these two classes specifically here, is Engineer ST with Auto attacks higher than Magus ST without it? If not there i no fairness of Magus having on average 500-600 stat points advantage that can be allocated into survivability.

[lumpi33]

The fact u bring that up only shows how intelectually dishonest players are willing to be when their class is at stake.

Agree.

Magus has been a power house for years now. They didn't really need buffs for their single target damage. What they needed was a quality of life change for the pet in fast paced orvr where you constantly move. The engis have the same issue there. Has that been fixed? Hmm, a little with the instant 20% damage stack from the pet. I think there would have been better options to make it more mobile but in the end it is a stationary class so I guess it is fine.

The poitn you should have mentioned is auto attacks. Casters do not get them. That is the supposed reason why weaponskill is valid.

The Engi has auto attacks while the Magus has not. Does it make Engi better than Magus because of this? Not at all. You can ask any player that has a BIS Magus and BIS Engi and they all gonna tell you the same thing: Magus is better in damage and survivability.

They have that missing auto attacks integrated into their damage, like SWs have it integrated into their damage because they don't have a pet like SHs.

You really can't pick single things out and think it makes one or the other better. You have to play both to see how they do overall.

So how will it be after the patch?
ST: I think Magus has a clear edge here. It is currently stronger on live and that gap will widen after the PTS patch. The new Swift Flames is huge.
Ranged AOE: I think Magus has still the edge because of the additional dot from Infernal Pain and the 15% more crit damage from SOV.
Close AOE: Here the Engi could have an edge now but I haven't tested that.
Survivability: I guess this point still goes to Magus as well. They don't have weaponskill on their armor pieces, so more of others. They got a teleport. Don't know, did Engi get anything?

That's my view.

[salazarn]

They have that missing auto attacks integrated into their damage, like SWs have it integrated into their damage because they don't have a pet like SHs.

Top kek

But I largely agree with the rest

[rorswar]

They have that missing auto attacks integrated into their damage, like SWs have it integrated into their damage because they don't have a pet like SHs.

Top kek

But I largely agree with the rest

+35% AA haste in Assault got taken away.

Replace with +35% AA damage, with no reliable way of stacking AA haste other than with some gear pieces.

Yay. Another thing that made ZERO sense.

[Farrul]

The Engi has auto attacks while the Magus has not. Does it make Engi better than Magus because of this? Not at all. You can ask any player that has a BIS Magus and BIS Engi and they all gonna tell you the same thing: Magus is better in damage and survivability.

Should be obvious to anyone who has played long enough, Magus---> Engineer.

If Engineer has to spend 600- 700 stats into WS, dedicate 2 x armor penetration tactic slots, and is still inferior you say in dps. An obvious balance issue.

Those 600 stats the Engineer had to spend in Weapon skill the magus can place into whatever instead whilst still doing better dps than the engineer? The 2 x armor pen tactics the Engineer had to slot up the Magus is free to spend on 15% crit + whatever etc.

Imho Engineer suffers from tactic bloat, it's impossible to grab the tactics necessary to match the ST dps of a Magus. Quick Reloader should probably had been integrated into the base skills and the tactic removed, replaced with hand crafted scope. Even then Magus is likely still stronger, especially after this patch goes live.

[M0rw47h]

They have that missing auto attacks integrated into their damage, like SWs have it integrated into their damage because they don't have a pet like SHs.

Top kek

But I largely agree with the rest

+35% AA haste in Assault got taken away.

Replace with +35% AA damage, with no reliable way of stacking AA haste other than with some gear pieces.

Yay. Another thing that made ZERO sense.

It's a buff. aSW is assassin, you want max BURST, not DPS.

[Mishas]

Give both Engi and Magus an incoming 50% heal debuff in one of the dots from the ST spec and you can keep the pet buff and the +10% tactics.

Can we now address that there is little difference now between BW/Sorc and Engi/Magus now? I would have hoped the mechanics make the class feel different but overall, the ST spec works very similar to how BW/Sorc ST works. The melee AoE spec will be pretty similar too (apart from the rift). Maybe the middle tree is still somehow different but overall the pet mechanic is pretty dull.

Can´t we discuss about why would not it be more interesting to discuss about a real overhaul of the pet mechanic rather than just compare ST numbers on a dummy?

[buerdig]

"The Magus has historically had one less ability compared to the Engineer which gave us the opportunity to introduce something new to the kit of the Magus. This is a new mobility tool which uniquely ties into your pet management. In terms of cost and cooldown, it shares a lot with Instability. By having its destination locked to your minions position, we aim to limit its directly offensive use while still allowing the creation of clutch moments by using it to quickly fall back, reposition or juke your enemies."

What I find amusing is Engi's are complaining about Magus, in a thread about Magus feedback. I believe every rDPS has their own lead when making the changes and the changes to Magus have no impact on the changes to Engi's. If there are complaints to the mechanics of Engi's lets address them in the Engi feedback or the general rdps feedback which is over 30 pages.

Infernal pain tactic providing additional DoT was not buffed, in fact it was changed to no longer even benefit from 50% additional crit dmg tactic. It's also meant to be an interrupt with taking the tactic providing an additional DoT as a way of putting pressure for interrupting key casts or channels.

If we are talking about AoE, Daemonlogy is actually very viable spec with/without rift due to the changes to warpfire. It does once again, require very specfic tactics such as surging power, contract, close quarters (The dummy up close will immediately set back without it) and bringing your pet close or keeping it back for an escape. With swift flames, Rift actually feels good outside of keep/funnels.

[rorswar]

Top kek

But I largely agree with the rest

+35% AA haste in Assault got taken away.

Replace with +35% AA damage, with no reliable way of stacking AA haste other than with some gear pieces.

Yay. Another thing that made ZERO sense.

It's a buff. aSW is assassin, you want max BURST, not DPS.

Then give me decent ways to stack AA, otherwise it’s just a nerf.

[Astropunk]

The fact u bring that up only shows how intelectually dishonest players are willing to be when their class is at stake.

Agree.

Magus has been a power house for years now. They didn't really need buffs for their single target damage. What they needed was a quality of life change for the pet in fast paced orvr where you constantly move. The engis have the same issue there. Has that been fixed? Hmm, a little with the instant 20% damage stack from the pet. I think there would have been better options to make it more mobile but in the end it is a stationary class so I guess it is fine.

The poitn you should have mentioned is auto attacks. Casters do not get them. That is the supposed reason why weaponskill is valid.

The Engi has auto attacks while the Magus has not. Does it make Engi better than Magus because of this? Not at all. You can ask any player that has a BIS Magus and BIS Engi and they all gonna tell you the same thing: Magus is better in damage and survivability.

They have that missing auto attacks integrated into their damage, like SWs have it integrated into their damage because they don't have a pet like SHs.

You really can't pick single things out and think it makes one or the other better. You have to play both to see how they do overall.

So how will it be after the patch?
ST: I think Magus has a clear edge here. It is currently stronger on live and that gap will widen after the PTS patch. The new Swift Flames is huge.
Ranged AOE: I think Magus has still the edge because of the additional dot from Infernal Pain and the 15% more crit damage from SOV.
Close AOE: Here the Engi could have an edge now but I haven't tested that.
Survivability: I guess this point still goes to Magus as well. They don't have weaponskill on their armor pieces, so more of others. They got a teleport. Don't know, did Engi get anything?

That's my view.

I have BIS engineer (Gadeet) and BIS magus (Rayfinkle) and this person doesn't speak for me. It seems they have not played both classes extensively. They are likely a mostly order player with these arguments (that's why they don't communicate their characters). I think that both classes will be very strong after the patch. I prefer the ST engineer for damage because the sequence of abilities to score a kill is shorter, easier, and the auto attacks help. You are also more effective than a magus against targets you normally select. Magus have trouble with lower armored targets comparatively. The magus sequence is more powerful but takes a long time (5 abilities including a 3 second cast and a channel with a longer cooldown). Magus are also more "visible" because the channel is very bright and obvious. Engineers are much better are killing targets that don't realize they are in trouble.

The new changes will allow an engineer to run the sequence on any target they want very easily because the cooldowns will never be an issue, this is a huge change positively. They also improved snipe. The magus will always be less able to kill as many because of the channel cooldown and reliance on bolt of change.

These differences with the magus having a longer more powerful sequence better against armored targets with longer cooldowns versus an engineer being superior with a shorter sequence against lower armored targets is what makes the game fun to play. They are both good and both will be good after, I see no balance issue with any of the changes on both sides for this patch. It is a good patch for both.