Sm/Bo talk only!!!!!

[mistgun]

Like title says this topic is on how to get some work done on sm/Bo, nothing else, if you don't have anything to say reguarding the sm/Bo class, move along please.


So aza and other have been trying to get some work done with sm/Bo but nothing has been done due to the community being indecisive. I say we start with these changes already, but by taking one step at a time. Seeing how the classes play out and deciding how much more adjustments it needs little by little. There are plenty of ideas out there, but if we don't start with something, if we don't get our foot in the door, we won't get anywhere.

I say we start with some small adjustments that will help out the 2 classes but are not game breaker changes, which are - What I'd start with:

SM:

- Phantom's Blade to a group shield
- Sapping Strike to an AP drain
- Crashing Wave to 9pts
- Redirected Force to a medium punt

BO:

- Da Toughest! to a group buff
- Arm Breaka to an AP drain
- Down Ya Go! to 9pts


I think these will help get the 2 classes at least started and put closer in par with other tanks. This will help the movement and get things rolling. What do you guys think? What are your thoughts/ideas?

[Coryphaus]

We can theory craft and all that and I'm compleatly down for those change and if made I would defiantly roll blorcs as my main again but the problem is that we won't see any of these changes made till t4. Further more I think we also need to consider the 1.49 PTS buffs

[mistgun]

I don't see how the changes will have any effect in t2 to t4. I think sm/Bo are the only classes right now that dosnt have a kd or aoe root. They have neither, While other tanks have kd and other classes aoe roots/snares. I think these changes will be good now and up to t4. Again this is to get the ball moving. If any of these changes where to not work out later on or become to op down the road that will obviously be changed or worked on. But we have to start somewhere.

[Azarael]

but the problem is that we won't see any of these changes made till t4.

In the case of very questionable changes I agree.

However, and I can't speak for Destro side, on Order we already have KotBS/IB syndrome, where premade groups don't want any other tank. That says to me that there is no point waiting in order to make changes. The vast majority of people, if not all, accept that SM/BO need something tweaking, so if no good reason for not doing so appears in this thread, I will propose this internally.

Additionally, if the poster in another thread is correct and the next opportunity to push the cap will be after Christmas, I'd rather not wait that long to make a start. My motivation for pushing the cap up is mostly to get to the stage where modifications can be made.

[Joan]

I main a Black Orc (and I assure you that i will NOT reroll). What BO (and I guess SM too? can't speak for order counterpart) desperately need is more group utility. I've been rejected, segregated, left apart in premades over the typical Chosen - BG duo. That's not fair imo. I'm the kind of guy that thinks that changes should start to pop now (in t2). What's the point of waiting for T4? I mean, do we, BO's, really have to suffer this segregation issue until T4? That's a long while. I actually think that pushing the cap a bit further is a good idea. Sure, some will whine "OH FK AZ IS SM NOW SM'S WILL BE OP" or "That useless tank got buffed? OMGLOL, if they buff THAT class, why don't they buff mine?
I say, screw them. Whining only leads to further whining, and that slows down progress.

[Evildoor]

I like the suggested changes but i'm not sure that Phantom Blade (and maybe Da Toughest too), even if it affects group, will be good enough compared to other Blades/Bellows without tweaking value/cd.

[Azarael]

That's a possibility, but if the change would be an improvement of any kind, it's a start.

[Rebuke]

You have to put the 4 main facets of tanks in comparison to the other available realm tank careers. I am looking at order side for now, though i doubt it will be any different for Blorcs:

Single Target DPS: Maining a SnB SM i can state that the damage they do is on par with the other tanks due to the fact 2/3 of the abilities does spirit damage (imho all damaging abilities should be spirit damage, but I digress). SM = Viable in this area (when I play in sc' s im mostly top dps right behind the "proper" dps careers).

Crowd Control: While we can indeed apply snare multiple times due to sudden shift, we lack any usefull punt, root or knockdown. SM = Lackluster in this area!

Tanking: Aside from Eagle's Flight buff duration being a little bit on the short side. I believe that with the self heal tactic, perfect defenses, dragons talon and amazing bubble a SM is far from being squishy. SM = Viable in this area.

Group Support: Weakest facet of the SM in my opinion. We basically only have Nature' s Blade and it sucks arse. Mainly due to the fact that somehow the main stats that are debuffed/buffed are intelligence/willpower/initiative; considering SM is supposed to be fighting/tanking enemy Mdps (due to the focus on parry) stealing the aforementioned stats makes it even more useless . SM = Lackluster in this area!

TL;DR: Swordmaster DPS and Tankyness are fine / Swordmaster Crowd-Control and Group Support are lackluster.

Eiger.

[Joan]

Mind if I borrow your template Rebuke? (BO's situation is somewhat the same)

Single Target DPS: Maining a SnB Black Orc, BO is fine in this aspect, on par with the rest of tanks. A tank's job is not to deal damage anyways = Viable

Crowd Control: We can apply reliable snares and armor debuff, but we lack any useful punt, root or KD. = Lackluster.

Tanking: Black Orc is actually very decent at this aspect. Wot Armor + Tuffer an' Nails + Savin' Me hide + hp war bellow makes us a rock to be reckoned with. Also, Can't Hit Me! + M2 shieldwall is a pretty good offensive-defensive combo. = Viable

Group Support: The Black Orc's bane. For GRP utility we only have Da Greenest (Which is useless because people tend to not hit tank first obviously) and Da Biggest! (Stat stealing ability which somehow tends to only steal int / willpower / initiative. Not very reliable) = Lackluster

Conclusion: BO's DPS and Survivability are fine / Group Utility and CC are lackluster.

[Bignusty]

Like title says this topic is on how to get some work done on sm/Bo, nothing else, if you don't have anything to say reguarding the sm/Bo class, move along please.


So aza and other have been trying to get some work done with sm/Bo but nothing has been done due to the community being indecisive. I say we start with these changes already, but by taking one step at a time. Seeing how the classes play out and deciding how much more adjustments it needs little by little. There are plenty of ideas out there, but if we don't start with something, if we don't get our foot in the door, we won't get anywhere.

I say we start with some small adjustments that will help out the 2 classes but are not game breaker changes, which are - What I'd start with:

SM:

- Phantom's Blade to a group shield
- Sapping Strike to an AP drain
- Crashing Wave to 9pts
- Redirected Force to a medium punt

BO:

- Da Toughest! to a group buff
- Arm Breaka to an AP drain
- Down Ya Go! to 9pts


I think these will help get the 2 classes at least started and put closer in par with other tanks. This will help the movement and get things rolling. What do you guys think? What are your thoughts/ideas?

Man Phantom blade to group shield will be so cheated whit all healer shileds on premade you will be invincible allways under shield .I'm Totally Disagree whit this Up upgrade ! And between a shield and HP buff there is a big difference because under shield you dont take damage and you can be healed safe but under HP buff from BO you can take damage and if those damage are high the buff become useless with heal or not so big umbalance.

And if the up is released so order just playing 2 WP 2 slayers or 2 BW 1 SM and 1 Knight / 1 IB go fight this premade spec . Most of order preamde are already so cheated when you fight 2 BW 2 knight 2 WP or 2 slayers 2 IB and 1 WP 1 RP. Or destro just roll order side because they are more easy god.

I'm playing black Orc on main and i dont need any Up because next lvl raise we can take Down Ya Go in the Tree . And black orc have already a party buff from the resist one.

Just ban Phantom blade / and Toughest from the up and it's a nice idea for me .