What "killed" the RvR for Order

[Saulazar]

Fatal players....

[Vilhelmina]

And this is why the grind for gear kills the game. We shouldn't have to PvE empty keeps to get good gear.

Just make the gear easily available for all and we can then all happily PvP in the lakes of our choosing.

But noooooooo... we have to stick to Mythic's out-dated business model of gear grinding like as if we're paying a monthly sub.

I just want to fight with, and against, everyone else in Devastator gear. Instead, we have this sh1tty attitude of players who join the winning side and then scream, "...screw you! Why should you just be given gear, I earned this...blah blah blah."

[thullonse]

And this is why the grind for gear kills the game. We shouldn't have to PvE empty keeps to get good gear.

Just make the gear easily available for all and we can then all happily PvP in the lakes of our choosing.

But noooooooo... we have to stick to Mythic's out-dated business model of gear grinding like as if we're paying a monthly sub.

I just want to fight with, and against, everyone else in Devastator gear. Instead, we have this sh1tty attitude of players who join the winning side and then scream, "...screw you! Why should you just be given gear, I earned this...blah blah blah."

yeah but then people cry all the time that "random-noname-guy-#141241" is wearing the same armor as "l337-player-xyz" who doesnt feel superior anymore. ive seen this in so many games where gear was easylie obtainable just to even out the odds but people still kept crying over this. the only game(s) who did it right were gw1 and gw2 where everyone has the same stats to chose from

[MrNobody]

Its not an out-dated Mythic business model, its been a strong part of MMOs since MMOs began.

Obtaining gear is a big part of why people play these sorts of games. With your logic the Devs should just give everyone R40 RR100 and the best available gear and let them have at it! That itself would kill the game in a heart beat.

They can't do anything about selfish players. However they could have easily limited the impact those players could have on the outcome of the game play with logical adjustments.

Anything that CAN be continuously farmed WILL be continuously farmed. Most things however have limited impact on the game as a whole. RvR on the other hand is designed to be large scale - that's the whole point. Which means anything that negatively affects RvR negatively affects the game as a whole.

Keeps that continuously reset every 15mins allows them to be farmed. Keep the 15min lockout timers to control relentless farming (or keep trading) for sure but remove the automatic keep reset. This way with no new keep to take Destro will take their 4 WBs and sit in the next available keep to defend and try to farm that way. Order won't attack said keep with their almost 1 WB so before long the Destro will slowly switch and hit keeps on their Order characters. Initially this will go back and forth but fewer will bother to switch each time until it settles on a relatively even (relatively in the WAR sense anyway) population base.

Obviously this is all theoretical and how players adapt in game is hard to map out and plan but the current system was doomed to fail the moment the RvR set incentive was introduced.

[Libra]

A fellow player said how they capped 18 keeps in a row, no defense.

That is actually true. We were outnumbered 5:1 90% of our gameplay, thus many people are X-realmers and switch faction depending on who's leading the moment. A way to stop that would be to forbid players to change realm, maybe once per day like they did implement in the later times.

[Vilhelmina]

Its not an out-dated Mythic business model, its been a strong part of MMOs since MMOs began.

Pssst! This is a F2P game. The devs can break free from this stupid model since they're not aiming to make money. Just let people enjoy the great RvR battles WAR was famous for.

Obtaining gear is a big part of why people play these sorts of games.

Wow, really? You play this game solely to get better gear? Do you brag to your friends afterwards? I'm definitely one of the few then who doesn't play to gear up.

Obviously this is all theoretical and how players adapt in game is hard to map out and plan but the current system was doomed to fail the moment the RvR set incentive was introduced.

That's what I'm trying to get across: the RvR incentives actively encourages this childish avoidance of fighting and jumping on the gravy train of the winning side. Can the losing side at the moment acquire this gear at the same rate of the bandwagon? NOPE!
But I'd happily get wiped and ROFLstomped by a bigger force if it also meant I achieved the same rate of progression as the winning side. But we don't, and getting ROFLstomped for no gain whilst the other side gains better gear faster so that they can ROFLstomp you faster in the future, makes me go, "... screw this! Time to go have fun playing Mad Max instead."

[MrNobody]

Forbidding players from changing sides is hard when they can just make multiple accounts. Besides, its an Alpha phase game - let people test every career on both sides. The more the better.

I don't think the argument is against players having characters on both factions. Hell, I started out as a SH first before creating an Order character to try out. I only deleted my SH because I wanted to salvage the name. :p

Players will also be cheap when they're rewarded for it. The simple thing would be to limit the rewards they can get.

[Buzgit]

We should let people log on their des chars and let them get fully geared, as long as people doesn't understand that playing just to get gear leads nowhere, they wont change the way they play, no matter what the devs do.

[MrNobody]

Wow, really? You play this game solely to get better gear? Do you brag to your friends afterwards? I'm definitely one of the few then.

I don't talk to any of my friends about this game outside of this game. Why would I? Earning gear within the game is a sense of achievement to many (queue the 'not achieving much IRL?' line) however I play a PvP game for the same reason as everyone else - I enjoy fighting other players. So you want everything given to you so you can brag to little Johnny down the street how you killed DoKMasterSupreme on WAR. An online game he's probably never heard of. If that's your sense of achievement then kudos to you. Now go kick a puppy or something.

[Tiggo]

I

Anything that CAN be continuously farmed WILL be continuously farmed. Most things however have limited impact on the game as a whole. RvR on the other hand is designed to be large scale - that's the whole point. Which means anything that negatively affects RvR negatively affects the game as a whole.

Keeps that continuously reset every 15mins allows them to be farmed. .

this is a VERY good point!