Nerfed buttons

[xavra42]

Those mods you listed make it easier to see things, xavra42, and there's nothing wrong with improving the game interface in the way these mods do. They do not automate gameplay in the way that NB can do.

Ok man you're not reading my posts. I answered why I use NB and I've been fair and admitted that it can only give you an advantage. How big of an advantage is too much is the question we should be asking. I don't think it helps that much, but ppl who have never used it keep claiming things it isn't capable of. And saying Enemy and buffhead do not make things easier is simply dishonest.

I get the just of your argument, that NB gives an advantage, but it's not a huge one.

That other addons give and advantage too.

I don't agree with you, but I can respect what your trying to say.

I don't agree because I believe UI addons like Enemny simply change the look of something alright in the game. With Enemy you still have to watch the HP bar, click or keybind target the person and press the heal button.

NBs is a feature not in the game and it uses skills for you.

Out of curiosity what do you use NB for? What do u have it setup to do?

I use it mainly to reduce the amount of buttons i need to play effectively. So before I would have to use the modifier keys and the higher numbers 7-0 a lot and sacrifice some movement keys like e and hotkeys i use for chat. So what I essentially do is instead of spells on 1 button I have rotations on it instead. Most spells are in this game are only very slight variations of one another. I think this is a problem of terrible game design by the way.

So let's look at my damage rotation on key 1. I have taunt as the first one because im a melee and it has a range and if i am in melee range it skips it. The spell also interrupts spellcasting, but there no condition to react to if he is spell casting, and even if you found a workaround (checking the condition of another spell that checks for spellcasting) it wouldn't work because the addon handles information too slowly.

And this is an important point because it makes the addon 1% as effective as people who don't use it think it is. If I have a moral spell that did 500 damage and I want it to activate when the person is <500 life so I can killsteal, I can't do that properly. Because it is very slow and 500 damage fades away like nothing when other ppl are attacking him. So you have to set it at <1000 which makes it much worse at killstealing than doing it manually. And globalcooldown makes it so you don't do things quicker, but you reach the spell you want easier.

This post is getting long but the rest of damage sequence is **** that makes sense like snare second etc. Some good uses are for HoT spells because it knows when to refresh it. It good for some reactive spells like if you made a block or parry you can shield rush. It controls the amount of stacks of a spell you can have. These are things that even the most experienced players will mess up on and NB won't. It is an advantage, a significant one, but also not a large one. It comes with negatives like you have to follow a predefined script which makes you less effective and you cannot keep adding conditions to it because it will make the thing run slower which aggravates its main drawback. You cannot have the solution of keeping other spells on the action bar anyways because then you will have even more keys in the original and reacting will be even harder.

Like I said it can only help. I've measured closely how much and I don't think it's too extreme. Most of my ideas that I've had for it aren't feasible. Which is why I was genuinely curious as to what you use it for that is good enough to be considered bad. No one has said anything I considered to be too overpowered and I personally think people are very selfish. Azareal was like 'if i could ban it i would put it to a vote' but I already know that most people don't use it and they also don't understand NB and will just vote to ban it because they don't have anything to lose.

[magicthighs]

We know what NB does, why do you keep repeating the claim that we don't understand it? Most of us have played the game for multiple years, you know. We're well aware of what the mod can accomplish. Not that "you can't knock it unless you've tried it" isn't a bad argument to begin with, by the way.

[venrik]

I started using NB during the last year and a half of the live game, because I have HAVS (basically severe nerve damage in my hands from using power tools on a daily basis over the past 22 years), and prolonged play caused a lot of pain. I don't use it to automate my game completely but rather to reduce the amount of keys I have to press, as my dexterity in my fingers is somewhat reduced. Can I play without it? Yes I can, but I am only be able to play for short periods of time before the pain gets bad or my fingers lock up. For me, NB was a big help and let me continue playing the game when I thought I would have to quit. If NB is banned then fair enough, I don't really know how much it can be used to automate everything as that it isn't how I use it, but if people are using it that way then I can understand peoples concern about it. The only thing I can say is that if someone is using it to fully automate everything they do then they are only gimping themselves in the long run.

[Azuzu]

I started using NB during the last year and a half of the live game, because I have HAVS (basically severe nerve damage in my hands from using power tools on a daily basis over the past 22 years), and prolonged play caused a lot of pain. I don't use it to automate my game completely but rather to reduce the amount of keys I have to press, as my dexterity in my fingers is somewhat reduced. Can I play without it? Yes I can, but I am only be able to play for short periods of time before the pain gets bad or my fingers lock up. For me, NB was a big help and let me continue playing the game when I thought I would have to quit. If NB is banned then fair enough, I don't really know how much it can be used to automate everything as that it isn't how I use it, but if people are using it that way then I can understand peoples concern about it. The only thing I can say is that if someone is using it to fully automate everything they do then they are only gimping themselves in the long run.

That sucks to hear dude, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Obviously this argument doesn't involve special cases like yours. That being said, I'd imagine your one of the few people who have a legitimate reason to use it. It's like someone using a wheelchair because they're paralyzed vs someone using it because they're lazy.

[xavra42]

We know what NB does, why do you keep repeating the claim that we don't understand it? Most of us have played the game for multiple years, you know. We're well aware of what the mod can accomplish. Not that "you can't knock it unless you've tried it" isn't a bad argument to begin with, by the way.

Doesn't matter how long you've played, if you've never used the mod you can't understand it. You guys keep saying what it can do, and Jaycub and I told you why we've tried it and the drawbacks. It isn't nearly as effective as you think. If it were, then I'd agree it should be banned, but I am keeping an open mind and saying hey, what's a fair principle that we can go by to be applied to all mods/macros rather than just the ones certain people don't use. I like NB because it removes the tedium. I am not a competitive player and won't be for this game, it makes the game more enjoyable for me.

[xavra42]

I started using NB during the last year and a half of the live game, because I have HAVS (basically severe nerve damage in my hands from using power tools on a daily basis over the past 22 years), and prolonged play caused a lot of pain. I don't use it to automate my game completely but rather to reduce the amount of keys I have to press, as my dexterity in my fingers is somewhat reduced. Can I play without it? Yes I can, but I am only be able to play for short periods of time before the pain gets bad or my fingers lock up. For me, NB was a big help and let me continue playing the game when I thought I would have to quit. If NB is banned then fair enough, I don't really know how much it can be used to automate everything as that it isn't how I use it, but if people are using it that way then I can understand peoples concern about it. The only thing I can say is that if someone is using it to fully automate everything they do then they are only gimping themselves in the long run.

I play for a similar reason. Not that I have HAVS, but because it makes the game much more comfortable to play. It has made the game much more enjoyable to play so when it's being singled out unfairly I'll stand up for it. Not that it matters because it's going to stay regardless, but I have become very attached to it. And yes automating to the degree they are talking about is gimping themselves.

[Vigfuss]

The conditional checks are the problem. Other games have macroing systems, allowing you to reduce the number of buttons, but conditional checks are not a part of those systems.

[NummyJammers]

I started using NB during the last year and a half of the live game, because I have HAVS (basically severe nerve damage in my hands from using power tools on a daily basis over the past 22 years), and prolonged play caused a lot of pain. I don't use it to automate my game completely but rather to reduce the amount of keys I have to press, as my dexterity in my fingers is somewhat reduced. Can I play without it? Yes I can, but I am only be able to play for short periods of time before the pain gets bad or my fingers lock up. For me, NB was a big help and let me continue playing the game when I thought I would have to quit. If NB is banned then fair enough, I don't really know how much it can be used to automate everything as that it isn't how I use it, but if people are using it that way then I can understand peoples concern about it. The only thing I can say is that if someone is using it to fully automate everything they do then they are only gimping themselves in the long run.

That sucks to hear dude, I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Obviously this argument doesn't involve special cases like yours. That being said, I'd imagine your one of the few people who have a legitimate reason to use it. It's like someone using a wheelchair because they're paralyzed vs someone using it because they're lazy.

So you are saying Walmart is Pro Nerfed buttons?

[Soulcheg]

You know, for a man that never used NB, never, it's fun to hear such dramatic discussion Keep going, it's entertaining

[Bozzax]

Out of curiosity

What you hope to gain from droping NB and how will it improve Warhammer?