Improving the 2H blackguard playstyle

[mursie]

Given the discussion that's already taken place, I will give priority to any means of making 2h BG viable which doesn't involve giving them a KD.

I would love for you to discuss, in depth, the reasoning in this discussion that would make you give priority to any means other than the KD.

This thread has gone 30+ pages with a number of blackguard users posting that they believe a KD is THE means necessary to make 2h BG viable.

At a minimum, the number of users pro KD vs con KD is 50/50 at worst... if not more people polling for a KD than against. Why do you believe this is not a priority answer?

[Gobtar]

In the Lore a Sword of Ruin completely ignored armour, so I do like the undefendable @ 100 Hate. As for debuff I was thinking of playing into the selfish nature of the Blackguard while still being viable in a group setting. If it's going to be a debuff will it be one that only benefits the BG? or will it be a group assisting tool?

[bloodi]

Oh it's related to the KD. I've extensively played a 2h Vengeance IB and a 2h Malice BG and currently still play those specs. Everyday (on live and currently) when you switch between the IB and BG it is a monumental difference having the KD and not having the KD, to say otherwise is a grand delusion or complete lack of experience. Having an on-demand hard CC that does a considerable amount of damage is HUGE.

So is having a superpunt and an anti detaunt tactic and i dont see IB having any of those.

Or does that not make a monumental difference?

You have to realize what a guy who can utterly destroy a healer can do with a 2h kd that does good damage, he can debuff outgoing, kd, superpunt whoever guards him and there is no detaunt to save him, he can literally be a one man army that doesnt need anyone to shutdown a healer from the enemy group.

And as always we are limited by the client, i would love to see blade of ruin be changed into a dont know, 3 secs silence with 10 secs dot? Something that lets you at least move, not the be all and end all of ccs, a kd. However i dont think that is even possible.

[taccr]

I would wait with those changes until t4.
BG is currently the strongest destro tank. So much better than the other that it's a joke.

IB is even stronger because of the debuff schools and easy to access to aoe snare while having a all-in-one 2h spec. Also tough to kill later on once they get skin of stone.

If anything I would move IBs earthshatter to the stone tree rather than tuning the BG, forcing you to actually make decisions in your mastery spec.

[TenTonHammer]

Oh it's related to the KD. I've extensively played a 2h Vengeance IB and a 2h Malice BG and currently still play those specs. Everyday (on live and currently) when you switch between the IB and BG it is a monumental difference having the KD and not having the KD, to say otherwise is a grand delusion or complete lack of experience. Having an on-demand hard CC that does a considerable amount of damage is HUGE.

So is having a superpunt and an anti detaunt tactic and i dont see IB having any of those.

Or does that not make a monumental difference?

You have to realize what a guy who can utterly destroy a healer can do with a 2h kd that does good damage, he can debuff outgoing, kd, superpunt whoever guards him and there is no detaunt to save him, he can literally be a one man army that doesnt need anyone to shutdown a healer from the enemy group.

And as always we are limited by the client, i would love to see blade of ruin be changed into a dont know, 3 secs silence with 10 secs dot? Something that lets you at least move, not the be all and end all of ccs, a kd.

The super punt requires near max level hate, IBs do not have that requirement and is still pretty good punt in of itself, BG using undetauntable is still using a tactic slot that it might use for something.

This was the same point that the other users who were opposing the kd even if required you to give up both a tactic slot and to spec BoR; kept missing or ignoring, so a tactic slot and a specialization pot for a KD means they would have to choose between KD, crit, heal debuff, undetuantable, wounds and aa haste, shielding anger + move speed combo, or rugged and also having one less specialization point

[Chaoself]

BG doesnt need a 2h KD, it needs the wave of scorn moved for elite trainning.just that

[TenTonHammer]

I would wait with those changes until t4.
BG is currently the strongest destro tank. So much better than the other that it's a joke.

IB is even stronger because of the debuff schools and easy to access to aoe snare while having a all-in-one 2h spec. Also tough to kill later on once they get skin of stone.

If anything I would move IBs earthshatter to the stone tree rather than tuning the BG, forcing you to actually make decisions in your mastery spec.

BG is NOT the strongest destroy thank, that has and always will be chosen, whether it is a good tank is irrelevant as this is a discussion about 2h, not SnB

[War]

Oh it's related to the KD. I've extensively played a 2h Vengeance IB and a 2h Malice BG and currently still play those specs. Everyday (on live and currently) when you switch between the IB and BG it is a monumental difference having the KD and not having the KD, to say otherwise is a grand delusion or complete lack of experience. Having an on-demand hard CC that does a considerable amount of damage is HUGE.

So is having a superpunt and an anti detaunt tactic and i dont see IB having any of those.

Or does that not make a monumental difference?

You have to realize what a guy who can utterly destroy a healer can do with a 2h kd that does good damage, he can debuff outgoing, kd, superpunt whoever guards him and there is no detaunt to save him, he can literally be a one man army that doesnt need anyone to shutdown a healer from the enemy group.

And as always we are limited by the client, i would love to see blade of ruin be changed into a dont know, 3 secs silence with 10 secs dot? Something that lets you at least move, not the be all and end all of ccs, a kd. However i dont think that is even possible.

The IB punt has great distance on half the CD, and low mechanic cost; the punt difference is small. The anti-detaunt tactic is an amazing thing that the mirror actually doesn't have haha. But, as I've said before, the t4 offensive SnB build uses the anti-detaunt to better effect. It is used better by SnB in t3 also, since you can't get CD and the tactic at this point.

[Gobtar]

And as always we are limited by the client, i would love to see blade of ruin be changed into a dont know, 3 secs silence with 10 secs dot? Something that lets you at least move, not the be all and end all of ccs, a kd. However i dont think that is even possible.

The silence is what is special about the BOs and SMs, I don't think that BG should get it for BoR. I was thinking something along the lines of making the target of BoR be less effective in combat, or gives the BG an easier time for further attacks like a damage buff against that target.


Or maybe just maybe...(and this is probably the easiest fix)
Wave of Scorn > 9 points anguish
Elite Training > 5 points Malice
Blade of Ruin > 13 Loathing and will fixed later

I just realized that this actually doesn't add incentive to 2h BG and just makes SnB BG better.

[taccr]

BG is NOT the strongest destroy thank, that has and always will be chosen, whether it is a good tank is irrelevant as this is a discussion about 2h, not SnB

It is relevant.
You are trying to get buffs for a class that is way over the top atm.
The only somewhat unique thing chosens currently offer is a resists buff. If you go 2h you lose the KD.

Compare that to spammable 50% healing debuff, super punt, cw3 m1, 5s kd and high toughness.