Krku wrote:Premades are premades, they should rock. If you can't stand being farmed make one.
roadkillrobin wrote:I really don't like giving players who don't put any effort into making premdes or learning their class properly any bonuses. However i think when close to your own spawn point you should get a massive dmg healing and dmg reduction bonus to avoid spawn camping.
peterthepan3 wrote:...so people who are winning a scenario due to good synergy, class composition and a generally thorough understanding of how to play their respective class should be penalised, and their enemies giving a damage buff/heal buff while losing? If that isn't spoon feeding to the 10th degree, I don't know what it is. People want an easy alternative for everything.
No offence, but if a player can't play their class well then that's their issue!
To be quite honest it's starting to become seriously disappointing, in my opinion at least, with some people's attitudes towards the whole premade vs PUGs in scenarios situation. I get it: premades, naturally, will stop PUGs. That's just how it is. At the same time, it's disconcerting to see reactions such as, "Well, if you don't like getting farmed, form a group." "Learn to play," "You don't put any effort in, so you deserve to get farmed," etc etc. While group-based play should be encouraged, it's super important to realize that a large portion of the population are casual players. This has always been the case. No matter how much anyone screams to have people get themselves into groups, that just is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.
Do I think PUGs should be catered to 100% of the time? No. However, I don't think it's gucci for a casual player to log on one night and have to be rick-rolled repeatedly in scenarios by premades. Premades don't need extra brownie points for killing PUGs. There's the RvR lake for that (and, if anything, group vs. group scenarios would be more exemplary of effective communication, coordination, group setup, etc). I also don't see how any reasonable solution would severely cripple premades, except by preventing them from in one instance or another farming helpless players, though I am open to being proven wrong.
It just boggles my mind with how some people respond to this. I think the matter can be dealt with in a much more effective manner without having to belittle anyone's play style or punish it, be it premade or PUG.
Twyxx wrote:It just boggles my mind with how some people respond to this.
You just summed up my general reaction to the forum lol.
On topic though, I see where you are coming from, and I fully understand. But at the same time, this is a group-based game. It should be rewarded when you actually form premades. And rewards, more often than not, come from winning. And since this is a PvP game at it's core, there's also gonna be losers at the other end of that SC.
Do I think premades should roflstomp pugs with a 100% win rate? No.
Do I think pugs should be buffed because they can't be bothered to fix what they are doing wrong? No.
Adding some premade-only SCs could be cool for sure, but beyond that, Im not really sure what else to do. Or even if anything else should be done. This is essentially a question about whether the Devs want to use a carrot or a stick. I'd love to see them give pugs a carrot, simply because using the stick isn't fun for the receivers. I guess that's the dilemma for me: I don't want the devs to punish the premades, but I also don't want them to help the pugs too much, simply because that would be a slap in the face to the players who put in the time and effort.
Last edited by Razid1987 on Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Twyxx wrote:It just boggles my mind with how some people respond to this.
You just summed up my general reaction to the forum lol.
On topic though, I see where you are coming from, and I fully understand. But at the same time, this is a group-based game. It should be rewarded when you actually form premades. And rewards, more often than not, come from winning. And since this is a PvP game at it's core, there's also gonna be losers at the other end of that SC.
Do I think premades should roflstomp pugs with a 100% win rate? No.
Do I think pugs should be buffed because they can't be bothered to fix what they are doing wrong? No.
Adding some premade-only SCs could be cool for sure, but beyond that, Im not really sure what else to do. Or even if anything else should be done. This is essentially a question about whether the Devs want to use a carrot or a stick. I'd love to see them give pugs a carrot, simply because using the stick isn't fun for the receives. I guess that's the dilemma for me: I don't want the devs to punish the premades, but I also don't want them to help the pugs too much.
And I agree. It's a group based game, but I know for sure that there are so many people who will not ever form a premade or join a competitive group. And though I'm not necessarily okay with giving a damage multiplier or something to PUGs who are losing, but at least I can see, for example, in the context of the scenarios we have now:
If, say, NW was 6v6-only, and BFP PUG-only, and the rest be fair game (I'm just using these scenarios as an example). So if both a premade and a PUG were to que into Mourkain Temple, the PUGs can't be upset about losing, and the premade could be possibly looked down upon for farming helpless players if there was a 6-man on the other side only q'ing for NW, because they skipped on an opportunity for competitive play for an easy alternative.
Spoiler:
Yes, I'm aware of the population dilemma. It was just speculative examples in light of the situation.
roadkillrobin wrote:I really don't like giving players who don't put any effort into making premdes or learning their class properly any bonuses. However i think when close to your own spawn point you should get a massive dmg healing and dmg reduction bonus to avoid spawn camping. And also any objectives that you can pick up that generates points should start counting downwards if you bring it into this zone.
though most sc there are multiple exits of spawn points and there are guards, so spawn camping isnt actually happening.
(actually the meaning of spawn camping is that the enemy kills you WHILE you spawn and cant defend yourself. this is NOT possible in warhammer).
Mourk camping is more than alive and well and that sc doesn't have multiple exits
There is a difference between forming a group and forming a 6 man
Case and point a week or two back I was waiting with a bunch of people to farm t3 lairs so we decided to que together we got rolled so hard by Ordo pug, why?
because we played like 6 guys who got matched together in the same party, no coordination or communication via ts or vent
Just 6 people doing their own thing I've done better as a solo choppa than as that grp
It's easy to say lelgoformagrp but that dosnt mean anything if you don't have coordination, communication and playstyle synergy
Mourk camping is more than alive and well and that sc doesn't have multiple exits
There is a difference between forming a group and forming a 6 man
Case and point a week or two back I was waiting with a bunch of people to farm t3 lairs so we decided to que together we got rolled so hard by Ordo pug, why?
because we played like 6 guys who got matched together in the same party, no coordination or communication via ts or vent
Just 6 people doing their own thing I've done better as a solo choppa than as that grp
It's easy to say lelgoformagrp but that dosnt mean anything if you don't have coordination, communication and playstyle synergy
Well here's the ltp issue (sorry), put 6 random decent players together in a group and they still would tear through most things.
The problem is a large percentage of the population isn't "decent". If you take a look at league of legends, about 90% (or maybe more, don't know the excact numbers anymore) of the ppl playing ranked are in bronze/silver.
What happens if you let higher ranked people play them?
In LoL you have the elo systems to form fair matchups, War neither has the playerbase nor the system so "casuals" will suffer anyway.
Voting for a premade only scenario, but ppl are already crying about long que-times so...
Edit: Messed up quotes
Last edited by tomato on Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Games like LoL allows for 1 player to carry becuase of the skill ceiling.
WAR doesn't allow that near as much, not matter how good you are at the game you will hit a wall that you cannot surpass becuase the systems in place do not allow it.
I am not saying this game takes no skill, but the skill in this game that you need is based on how well you play with your group as a team. Having 6 "decent" random players in a scenario is not enough to win, they need to coordinate, assist, play off each other etc... otherwise they might as well be dogshit players. On top of this the game also requires you to have a certain composition of classes thanks to the trinity. you could have the 6 best DPS players in the world in a scenario but put them up against an average group with healers and tank and they will probably fail more times than not.
Spoiler:
I'm just ranting but totally agreeing with you tomato
Put 5 supports in LoL vs a balanced team and you have the same **** as 6 dps in one grp.
Playing solo vs an average to bad premade on an rdps, and you still go like 15/0 depending on the sc.
Playing solo tank against bad to average premades and you can completly wipe them. (ib outgoing on double dok for example)
Playing healer you can create a lot of pressure by keeping your group alive or stuff like Ap draining main dps, staggering healers etc.
IDK I only play dota where supports can carry thanks to the item system in dota compared to LoL.
I don't want the thread to get totally offtopic so I'll just shut my mouth now instead of having a 10 page tanget about whether or not 1 player can carry in WAR :^)
