Archmage/Shaman

[Bozzax]

The whole am/shmy is op in small scale is also missinformation sort of

They are poor in wb (on average)
They are weak in 6v6 (on average and in both roles)
They are strong 1vX, 2vX .... survival spec only nothing else
(3vX doubtful.. most likely you are better off with a pure heal)

Being a kiting dps the gear threshold/ grind is lower then for a melee

[Sponn]

Just mirror over the entire shaman build to AM. Give AM runaway! and explosive knockback.

Runaway was a gobbo racial since live server. And justified, cause order had the advantage of pounce and 2 range knockdowns (1 core, 1 optional). So giving gobbos some kiting advantage is ok.
Runaway is a quite strong tactic, which shouldnt hand out left and right. And mirroring is lame anyway.

This def isn't live bud. Look at all the abilities given to Zealot from RP.

[Bozzax]

I think all zealots would happily have ALL changes reverted including those abilities

[Sulorie]

Let me assume you talk about situations like a solo rdps riding through Praag and a mean shaman jumps around the corner?
I am wondering how you get steamrolled in an environment, where it matters, when having healers and tanks.

I'm talking about small-scale. If your opinion is that small-scale doesn't matter, that's fine. But don't make claims about AM/Shaman being balanced in small-scale, because they're clearly not.

At this point you lost the discussion as you admit, that solo play equals small scale for you.

The game balance isn't made for 1vs1 encounters, so imbalanced fights are to be expected.

Try playing a sorc/bw in a duel with a tank, do you want to nerf tank defenses then, because those casters lose? This alone should tell you, that single classes don't matter for balance.

Balance is off, when both sides have heals and tanks and individual classes still perform too good compared to the competition.

[p00ky]

Hi there,

I was reading this and thinking to myself that you must be running in pug random warbands or something or maybe you play the char but havent put all the hours into it yet as there are some detailed descriptions of how you play with mechanis which are really off..... the main one by far and that made me have to stop and answer being:

Fury of da green
Short explanation. So in the heat of battle, the healer looks for an active enemy target.

Man if your my healer and you start doing this in the middle of the battle....GG

This target has best few willpower to not disturb also it carries of course no shield. Then this target stands best still in the direct proximity of further "easy targets". The healer, who is completely underchallenged by the game, now combines this with a passive target that is also in close proximity to other allies whose life indicator shows less than 100%. He then remains stationary in place while casting the spell and hoping that no danger approaches him, nor do the circumstances around his active or passive target change. WOW!

You dont need to search for an active target, you assist target on ur Main Assasit as most ppl on your team taking damage will be around him, simple. Also he will be targetting enemies with low willpower like enemy DPS, he wont be targetting tanks with shield

You see, there are a lot of "ifs" and "buts" listed. Therefore, in my opinion, FODG is overrated and only playable in combination with other setups.
If we could at least cast spells while running, fewer of the spells would break off because we could keep sight. We would also be able to move and adapt to the battlefield.

You dont stay stationary in one place casting this, you build up on your healing spells and you fast cast this on the move.....
Abuse the mechanics of Fasta Choppa from the chopper and Waaagh from the black orc to be able to spam this ability while on the go. The heal output is huge, you can see this is cities with shammies that know what their doing for exmple.

Fury of the green is a much better an ability than I think you realize, I just feel you are using it incorrectly.

No need to discuss the eternal dps shamm /AM conversation. All one can say is this is a warband friendly game where those builds are useless. Dots are not considered burst damage by the way and a healer can remove the shammys dots and heal anyone targetted by their damage without a sweat... its only the soloers crying about this and the game isnt built around them.

Good luck out there!

[Caduceus]

At this point you lost the discussion as you admit, that solo play equals small scale for you.

The game balance isn't made for 1vs1 encounters, so imbalanced fights are to be expected.

Try playing a sorc/bw in a duel with a tank, do you want to nerf tank defenses then, because those casters lose? This alone should tell you, that single classes don't matter for balance.

Balance is off, when both sides have heals and tanks and individual classes still perform too good compared to the competition.

Oh look, another strawman. I haven't spoken about solo play in this entire thread, so you'll have to try better.

This is pathetic. Arbich had nothing to put to the table either. If this is the level at which you want to converse, go find someone else. That **** doesn't fly with me.

[Toshutkidup]

Then again, you talk about 1vs1 in a dps-healer-tank based game. Not every class has equal chances, because the balance isn't made for this.

This.. and I hate how Shamans/Am's can do what they do in solo game.. but I find it easier and less stressful as mdps to just let the shamans kill you, release and move on. Dont chase them and give them the satisfaction.. just die and release. Game isnt and never will be balanced around solo / 1v1 play.

If abilities are going to be removed on a pure “it is unfair 1v1” several other classes including slayer needs to be hit.

I ve played quite a lot of solo sorc bc ranked is so slow lately. I understand your viewpoint

Well my only point is the only 2 classes in the game I feel that are broken for solo 1v1 play are the Shaman/AM. However as broken as they may be, I will never expect that balance to ever be implemented to fix it as it’s not a priority or “care” to fix it especially on such a niche play style. So instead of complaining about it, just die, release and if you get a fight that you feel is more even for whatever class you play then fight ur ass off. But when I see a Shammy, I just stop and let them kill me, no point in even trying. I’ve accepted it and just fight what I can and move on.

[Sulorie]

At this point you lost the discussion as you admit, that solo play equals small scale for you.

The game balance isn't made for 1vs1 encounters, so imbalanced fights are to be expected.

Try playing a sorc/bw in a duel with a tank, do you want to nerf tank defenses then, because those casters lose? This alone should tell you, that single classes don't matter for balance.

Balance is off, when both sides have heals and tanks and individual classes still perform too good compared to the competition.

Oh look, another strawman. I haven't spoken about solo play in this entire thread, so you'll have to try better.

This is pathetic. Arbich had nothing to put to the table either. If this is the level at which you want to converse, go find someone else. That **** doesn't fly with me.

Don't wash away counter arguments with "this is a straw man", when you don't have anything else to say.

When this 1vs1 isn't small scale for you, then you significantly missed to explain, how said dot based dps healers kill anyone in any bigger sized grp setup e.g. up to 6man, when you have heal and tank.

There was not a single argument, which wasn't based on solo play, even if you refuse to admit, that such situations only happen solo.

Their dmg is very effective, when there are no heals, that's it.

[Caduceus]

Don't wash away counter arguments with "this is a straw man", when you don't have anything else to say.

Your counter arguments were aimed at an argument I never made. That's what a strawman is. It's basically just you arguing to yourself.

When this 1vs1 isn't small scale for you, then you significantly missed to explain, how said dot based dps healers kill anyone in any bigger sized grp setup e.g. up to 6man, when you have heal and tank.

By dishing out a level of single-target DPS that is comparable to dedicated DPS classes, while not having to make any of the sacrifices they do, and while also enjoying a great amount of utility and lifetap healing. This is what I've argued throughout this thread.

Their dmg is very effective, when there are no heals, that's it.

That's what every DPS class has to deal with, so I don't see how this helps your case.

[Sulorie]

Don't wash away counter arguments with "this is a straw man", when you don't have anything else to say.

Your counter arguments were aimed at an argument I never made. That's what a strawman is. It's basically just you arguing to yourself.

When this 1vs1 isn't small scale for you, then you significantly missed to explain, how said dot based dps healers kill anyone in any bigger sized grp setup e.g. up to 6man, when you have heal and tank.

By dishing out a level of single-target DPS that is comparable to dedicated DPS classes, while not having to make any of the sacrifices they do, and while also enjoying a great amount of utility and lifetap healing. This is what I've argued throughout this thread.

Their dmg is very effective, when there are no heals, that's it.

That's what every DPS class has to deal with, so I don't see how this helps your case.

Your whole argumentation is only valid for 1vs1 encounters, therefore anyone else here comes to this conclusion.

Their dps is nowhere near comparable to any dedicated dps class. Then you answer, they might be a bit lower but they can heal themselves. The thing is, the others don't have to heal themselves, because there are healers in group to do the job.
Their own healing isn't saving them in any encounter bigger than 1vs1, if the enemies know what to do.
This doesn't mean you can't make nice video clips of them kiting a bunch of fools and making them die to dots.


For a single gcd, dots deal significantly more dmg than any other skill, therefore the much higher efficiency in no-heal environments. This is another reason, why they can pump up numbers in scenario and look good on scoreboard.