[PVP]Scenario balance suggestion

[TenTonHammer]

Not just itemization but also the fact that supports are more relevent late game than LeL's

Supports like Rubick can still make big plays and even "early game support" CM can turn or help turn fights with a full duration ult

The problem with war is that it's not designed to for matches like sc's to be "carried"

You don't get bonuses like gold to buy items to get stronger as an sc progresses so ites not like you reach a point like medusa where you can 1v5 or in this case 1v12/18

And trying r[A]t by back capping is not as substantial cause if you try and make your self about objective based gaming 1-2 people from that 12 man grp can undo all that work or they just win through kills alone

[lilsabin]

It just boggles my mind with how some people respond to this.

You just summed up my general reaction to the forum lol.

On topic though, I see where you are coming from, and I fully understand. But at the same time, this is a group-based game. It should be rewarded when you actually form premades. And rewards, more often than not, come from winning. And since this is a PvP game at it's core, there's also gonna be losers at the other end of that SC.
Do I think premades should roflstomp pugs with a 100% win rate? No.
Do I think pugs should be buffed because they can't be bothered to fix what they are doing wrong? No.
Adding some premade-only SCs could be cool for sure, but beyond that, Im not really sure what else to do. Or even if anything else should be done. This is essentially a question about whether the Devs want to use a carrot or a stick. I'd love to see them give pugs a carrot, simply because using the stick isn't fun for the receives. I guess that's the dilemma for me: I don't want the devs to punish the premades, but I also don't want them to help the pugs too much, simply because that would be a slap in the face to the players who put in the time and effort.

i think all that "this is a group based game" is one of the big reason this game failed , dood , i got to school in the morning and work in the evening , i am back at home around 10 pm east NA time , when i log on , it s probably for 1 hour or 2 max cause you know , i got real life **** starting tomorrow morning , so , sitting there and waiting for people to organize and make a group TAKES A LOT OF TIMES (i repeat , i dont have all day) it will be nice if the actual devs could work on a way to make people like us enjoy the game too , and i know there are a lots of people like me around the planet . Even in wow , u can now pug-raid , because they know time is precious and we cant waste it spaming in lfg ...

[crusadius]

Dont make the SC system search for 2-2-2 groups
Thats not realistic since around 50% = dps (like pointed out already)

Make the sc system search for something like 1-1-4 (where 4 is dps afcourse)
It would be a lot more realistic. SC pops will come often with this setup. Also it would avoid the sc pop ups where there are ONLY dps, or another obvious: where there are only healers in a group.

Also if its possible: Setup a timer, if they cant make a 1-1-4 groups within 10 minutes. Fill it up with randoms. It would at least get the sc pops more often. But with 1-1-4, I doubt it will ever take longer then 10 minutes to wait.

[peterthepan3]

It just boggles my mind with how some people respond to this.

You just summed up my general reaction to the forum lol.

On topic though, I see where you are coming from, and I fully understand. But at the same time, this is a group-based game. It should be rewarded when you actually form premades. And rewards, more often than not, come from winning. And since this is a PvP game at it's core, there's also gonna be losers at the other end of that SC.
Do I think premades should roflstomp pugs with a 100% win rate? No.
Do I think pugs should be buffed because they can't be bothered to fix what they are doing wrong? No.
Adding some premade-only SCs could be cool for sure, but beyond that, Im not really sure what else to do. Or even if anything else should be done. This is essentially a question about whether the Devs want to use a carrot or a stick. I'd love to see them give pugs a carrot, simply because using the stick isn't fun for the receives. I guess that's the dilemma for me: I don't want the devs to punish the premades, but I also don't want them to help the pugs too much.

And I agree. It's a group based game, but I know for sure that there are so many people who will not ever form a premade or join a competitive group. And though I'm not necessarily okay with giving a damage multiplier or something to PUGs who are losing, but at least I can see, for example, in the context of the scenarios we have now:
If, say, NW was 6v6-only, and BFP PUG-only, and the rest be fair game (I'm just using these scenarios as an example). So if both a premade and a PUG were to que into Mourkain Temple, the PUGs can't be upset about losing, and the premade could be possibly looked down upon for farming helpless players if there was a 6-man on the other side only q'ing for NW, because they skipped on an opportunity for competitive play for an easy alternative.

Spoiler:

Yes, I'm aware of the population dilemma. It was just speculative examples in light of the situation.

I'm sorry, but noone is bashing pugs. I'm all for pug vs pug stuff.

The problem arises, however, when after:
* Filtered queue systems to ensure x amount of each archetype implemented;
* Pug vs pug scenarios are in the works, and premade vs premade;
* Implementation of Battle of Praag which isn't necessarily won by a premade, provided the 2 other groups are good

Even after these changes, people are still demanding that they be given a bandaid.
People need to get off their high horses and STOP queueing for T3 scenarios solo, expecting to win. If you queue solo in scenarios, EXPECT THE WORSE. Seriously.

It baffles me that people can't fathom the importance of forming a group. It's a good habit to get into in anticipation of T4. You think premades are bad in T3? Wait till t4.

It's annoying the amount of hate premades get for playing scenarios as they were intended. Ridiculous. It seems in this PVP MMO, more than any other I've played, people expect to play upon the 'I'm handicapped' card and want everything given to them on a silver plate. Unheard of in WOTLK WOW arena/LoL.

[Scrilian]

Well they can't pull the "I'm a paying customer" card, thank god for that.

[peterthepan3]

Well they can't pull the "I'm a paying customer" card, thank god for that.

Precisely. Nothing is indebted to us for playing a free emulator of a dead game. Canis canem edit, tbh.

[Twyxx]

>on my phone and quoting is hard so I'll skip on that.

I think you either did not read my first post in its entirety or you missed the point. I did not discredit the importance of getting into a group. I acknowledge that this is a group based game, and premades will beat PUGs. My point was that no matter how much anyone pushes for everyone to get into a group to curb whining, that's idealism at best. The *large* casual population never has been, does not, and will not adhere to that. That will not change any time soon.

I also realize that there are bandaid fixes. I pointed out specifically "reasonable" solutions are what I think would be best, and disagreed with some of the suggestions mentioned in this thread. And, like I've said, do I think PUGs should be catered to 100% of the time? No. I wasn't trying to bash premades, either. I simply pointed out that it's kinda silly to think that casuals deserve to get Rick-rolled all the time by them, when we all know that that isn't as exemplary of skill as premade vs. premade instances, and those casuals will never do what we want (form premades of their own).

I'm still open to someone explaining how this hinders premades in any way (in reference to my posts).

[peterthepan3]

My point was that no matter how much anyone pushes for everyone to get into a group to curb whining, that's idealism at best. The *large* casual population never has been, does not, and will not adhere to that. That will not change any time soon.

That there is the problem. It's an inherent problem that has no bearing whatsoever. It's merely indicative of how certain players in this game are.

Most players want to succeed in this game. Most players will get into guilds. If you're a casual player, play till your heart's content - but don't expect to win if you don't put in the time required of you in a PvP-orientated game. There are other games that better serve the casual player. Sorry to come across rude, but it's simply the truth of the matter. No doubt someone will take it as offensive, but whatevs.

[Druin]

My point was that no matter how much anyone pushes for everyone to get into a group to curb whining, that's idealism at best. The *large* casual population never has been, does not, and will not adhere to that. That will not change any time soon.

That there is the problem. It's an inherent problem that has no bearing whatsoever. It's merely indicative of how certain players in this game are.

Most players want to succeed in this game. Most players will get into guilds. If you're a casual player, play till your heart's content - but don't expect to win if you don't put in the time required of you in a PvP-orientated game. There are other games that better serve the casual player. Sorry to come across rude, but it's simply the truth of the matter. No doubt someone will take it as offensive, but whatevs.

Still can't see how giving pugs an option to play Scs without encountering premades is a problem...

[Twyxx]

I get what you're saying, and I'm not entirely in disagreement because I understand this game is group based. It just doesn't make sense to me to discredit an entire portion of the server population just because it doesn't fit the idealized nature of the game. It's not a part of the populace that can just be put to the side because those who take the time to be competitive are more important (that's not to say they're not important, but we shouldn't consider them as the epitome of gameplay here while putting other players on the backburner).