General idea's about Sc's

[Nameless]

if u want to increse rvr representation you can split lvl 40s sc bracket from 31-39 sc bracket so all these juicy low lvl may join the joy of orvr

Btw how making orvr main and dont wanting to split population goes with all pve suff added lately, esp with pve dailies.

[wargrimnir]

We've addressed every one of these points before, and this is where we are today.

Wider bracket from 16-39
- There's a lot of gear in the 35-39 range that is designed for endgame scaling. Lots of work to prevent players from getting obnoxiously powerful gear to preserve the experience of lower level players. Could we do it? Sure. Would it be worth the time and effort? No, not really. Why? Scenarios work just fine as they are. How do you know that? Because people still do them, a lot.

Emblem prices
- These prices are high, we're very much aware of that. We're very much aware how long it takes to get gear. "But make them lower! It takes X long to get stuff!" This is not an argument to lower costs. This is acknowledgment of how long it takes to get stuff. Which we are quite aware it happens to be a long time. That's what it is. Also, your math is not representative of both sides of the equation. You don't go into how long it takes to earn a gold bag, or the math behind getting all of the bags you need.

For example, if a zone flip takes 2 hours on average, and you win a gold bag every 10 flips, you would average around 20 hours per piece, ignore boots and gloves that you can get from drops, and you still come out to 80h for the remaining 4 pieces. That's if you don't get duplicates, and people do get duplicates quite often. Tack on another 40 hours for that maybe? Take off 20 hours from buying a piece? Either way, end game set should take around 100 hours after hitting RR40. That seems fine. Can you do it faster by being part of a group that funnels all the currency to one person? Yes. Do most people do that? No. Should we figure out a way to prevent that? Hmm.

Each character you have, provided you keep at a good pace, should be just about complete within 200 hours or so accounting for all the content we've released so far. That's about 2.5 months of 4 hour game sessions 5x a week. Is that unfair to get everything you can from the game? It's an MMO, you play it persistently to get the next thing. When we add more content, it's going to increase that number again. And again. And again. Because that's what MMO's do. You might also note when we bump up content, we tend to lower costs of other stuff.

Scenario Renown/XP
- RvR goes through phases where you spend minutes doing very little in terms of gaining renown. Scenarios (provided you're getting at least some kills/points) are a constant source of renown and XP, meaning, you're always working towards value, where RvR you get it if you get it. That's why you enjoy scenarios, because you know, for the most part, this will not waste your time.

When it comes to standing on flags, they're doing infinitely more for RvR than you are by playing scenarios, so we encourage that. If someone is standing on the flag afk, they're meat for the group who charges around the corner and kills them. Players barely paying attention know exactly what they're signing up for when they stand at a flag, and players hunting them down know right where to find them. At least something is being spurred into activity, which is nice. Maybe you get tired of being hunted down, form a group, do the same thing, run into the people that were hunting you, make sweet love under the moonlight. Let your imagination go wild, anything can happen in RvR.

Currency Conversion
- I have a billion of these things that I don't need anymore, give me that other set/weapon/loot for basically nothing.
Pass.

We're not doing emblem > medallion or vice versa. Once you finish a set, you can pass or toss them in a bin, or buy some potions, or whatever you can do with them. Sometimes nothing. Even a 5 to 1 conversion means nothing for people that have 10,000+ sitting in their currency bag collecting dust. If you want the scen gear, go do the stuff to earn it. Same for RvR. If you don't like one side and want the stuff from it, that's tough. That's how it is, very unfortunate. (I suspect most people enjoy both RvR and Scenarios to some degree)

Quest turn-ins
- This is another intentional change we made. There's a single turn-in point. If you want to run scenarios and get really efficient in terms of emblems/gold/xp, then you can hang out in the capital city in a central location where other players might do the same. This is another small push to discourage people from queueing in the lakes where losing 12-24 people at a time can be disruptive in certain situations (although you wouldn't feel it if you're the group leaving that situation).

So there you go, another round of "Y U HATE SCENS GRIM" explained in terms I hope everyone can understand. We don't hate scens, I quite enjoy them personally, but I also understand the value of making RvR king on this server, and the rest of us peasant scenario players get to enjoy our mud to play in. Now lets just pack all of this away until the next thread is started after you've all forgotten in a month.

[Goldenbow100]

Hm, another thread to try and get the players perspective through to the team, another thread wasted. I give up on trying to provide valuable feedback to the team, lol.

[Luuca]

WE WILL NEVER FORGET.

One last thing, and then I too will become a passenger on the bus until my stop.

You say losing 12-24 players from ORVR can be disruptive. I agree it can. Especially disruptive when 12 of those players are out in the RVR lakes and the opposing 12 are in the capital city standing by the mailbox.

If SC turn ins were inside the scenarios, 12 from both sides would leave the lake meaning less impact for each realm. Also 12 return in my example, but the other 12 don't. Isn't your method more disruptive?

[Manatikik]

We've addressed every one of these points before, and this is where we are today.

Wider bracket from 16-39
- There's a lot of gear in the 35-39 range that is designed for endgame scaling. Lots of work to prevent players from getting obnoxiously powerful gear to preserve the experience of lower level players. Could we do it? Sure. Would it be worth the time and effort? No, not really. Why? Scenarios work just fine as they are. How do you know that? Because people still do them, a lot.

Emblem prices
- These prices are high, we're very much aware of that. We're very much aware how long it takes to get gear. "But make them lower! It takes X long to get stuff!" This is not an argument to lower costs. This is acknowledgment of how long it takes to get stuff. Which we are quite aware it happens to be a long time. That's what it is. Also, your math is not representative of both sides of the equation. You don't go into how long it takes to earn a gold bag, or the math behind getting all of the bags you need.

For example, if a zone flip takes 2 hours on average, and you win a gold bag every 10 flips, you would average around 20 hours per piece, ignore boots and gloves that you can get from drops, and you still come out to 80h for the remaining 4 pieces. That's if you don't get duplicates, and people do get duplicates quite often. Tack on another 40 hours for that maybe? Take off 20 hours from buying a piece? Either way, end game set should take around 100 hours after hitting RR40. That seems fine. Can you do it faster by being part of a group that funnels all the currency to one person? Yes. Do most people do that? No. Should we figure out a way to prevent that? Hmm.

Each character you have, provided you keep at a good pace, should be just about complete within 200 hours or so accounting for all the content we've released so far. That's about 2.5 months of 4 hour game sessions 5x a week. Is that unfair to get everything you can from the game? It's an MMO, you play it persistently to get the next thing. When we add more content, it's going to increase that number again. And again. And again. Because that's what MMO's do. You might also note when we bump up content, we tend to lower costs of other stuff.

Scenario Renown/XP
- RvR goes through phases where you spend minutes doing very little in terms of gaining renown. Scenarios (provided you're getting at least some kills/points) are a constant source of renown and XP, meaning, you're always working towards value, where RvR you get it if you get it. That's why you enjoy scenarios, because you know, for the most part, this will not waste your time.

When it comes to standing on flags, they're doing infinitely more for RvR than you are by playing scenarios, so we encourage that. If someone is standing on the flag afk, they're meat for the group who charges around the corner and kills them. Players barely paying attention know exactly what they're signing up for when they stand at a flag, and players hunting them down know right where to find them. At least something is being spurred into activity, which is nice. Maybe you get tired of being hunted down, form a group, do the same thing, run into the people that were hunting you, make sweet love under the moonlight. Let your imagination go wild, anything can happen in RvR.

Currency Conversion
- I have a billion of these things that I don't need anymore, give me that other set/weapon/loot for basically nothing.
Pass.

We're not doing emblem > medallion or vice versa. Once you finish a set, you can pass or toss them in a bin, or buy some potions, or whatever you can do with them. Sometimes nothing. Even a 5 to 1 conversion means nothing for people that have 10,000+ sitting in their currency bag collecting dust. If you want the scen gear, go do the stuff to earn it. Same for RvR. If you don't like one side and want the stuff from it, that's tough. That's how it is, very unfortunate. (I suspect most people enjoy both RvR and Scenarios to some degree)

Quest turn-ins
- This is another intentional change we made. There's a single turn-in point. If you want to run scenarios and get really efficient in terms of emblems/gold/xp, then you can hang out in the capital city in a central location where other players might do the same. This is another small push to discourage people from queueing in the lakes where losing 12-24 people at a time can be disruptive in certain situations (although you wouldn't feel it if you're the group leaving that situation).

So there you go, another round of "Y U HATE SCENS GRIM" explained in terms I hope everyone can understand. We don't hate scens, I quite enjoy them personally, but I also understand the value of making RvR king on this server, and the rest of us peasant scenario players get to enjoy our mud to play in. Now lets just pack all of this away until the next thread is started after you've all forgotten in a month.

How do you guys feel of maybe making it 16-35 and 36-40. That way the 40’s don’t get allies/enemies with less than Ruin and Epic weapons (ideally) and the 31-35 crowd doesn’t get mercilessly beaten by better geared players? I doubt that the gap between 30 and 35 is nearly as noticeable as 31 and 40. This way everyone is a little happier with their lot; people spend less time on the lower end of their brackets.

[anarchypark]

Hm, another thread to try and get the players perspective through to the team, another thread wasted. I give up on trying to provide valuable feedback to the team, lol.

you seem to not understand what feedback means.
it's not ' you heard my opinion, now do it. '
you'll get objection sometimes.
there are many ways for your next move. but u already made choice i guess.

they set the monthly course with reasons.
why do u guys want to reduce it?
except 'easy farming'

[Hargrim]

It would honestly be nice to hear from the Balance Moderators / Developers in regards to their position on this topic. No offense to Wargrimnir, you aren't the person who would have to take the time / effort to implement this sort of idea. @ Dansari / peterthepan3 & MaxHayman / Natherul

Well, dansari or peter won't implement it too so why would they have anything to say about it ? The way it currently works, more or less, is that the general direction the games moves to is agreed between those people (order of appearance doesn't matter): wargrimnir, Torque, Lheana, MaxHayman, Natherul, Yaliskah. Not everyone use the right to talk about every thing, but if one of those people tells you that something is because X you can assume with high certainty that this is teams stance on the issue at hand.

[Hargrim]

Btw how making orvr main and dont wanting to split population goes with all pve suff added lately, esp with pve dailies.

It goes great, because this game always had PvE element and you are fully allowed to ignore them if you don't like it.

[Aerogath]

To say it simple.... SC`s are a pain in the ass, the absolute gigantic balance problems aside like 6healer vs 1healer and STILL no healer cap for pug sc`s or more rewards for playing healer on a low pop what needs a role track and would help in so much aspects or stop matching PREMADE teams AGAINST pug teams.

Ill only did Sc`s for the sets because they are not rewarding due balance problems and holy moly a joke of over 2500 emblems for the set (weapons not included) where you get 1 for loose and 6 for win or so.
Thats a reason why i dodge playing some classes.... funny right?
I loved Sc`s on Live but on ROR .... Even RvR is more rewarding and this even with the fact that there were days i played the whole day nonstop RvR in huge zergs and became 60%~ of my rank 25 Tokens and 2 green items....

So we had now tons of threads with really good and helpful ideas but all we hear is " SC`s are fine"
Sorry but i lost now my very last fun on ROR... after this statement.

[Nefarian78]

you seem to not understand what feedback means.
it's not ' you heard my opinion, now do it. '
you'll get objection sometimes.
there are many ways for your next move. but u already made choice i guess.

they set the monthly course with reasons.
why do u guys want to reduce it?
except 'easy farming'

You haven't understood a single thing from the entire thread, if you think that what happening is people that want "easy farming" (Btw, there's no such thing as "farming" Scs. FULL attention is required to win, unlike the bot mode fiesta that is RvR)

Luuca explained what most scenario players think perfectly and as always, like everything that is about scenarios, that feedback will be ignored like it has always happened. Don't worry, soon scenarios will die and everything will be forgotten. Hooray for the RvR zerglings