[PVP]Scenario balance suggestion

[Idrinth]

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

[magter3001]

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

There are three main issues in pugs as far as I'm concerned.

1. Healer's who are not specced to heal (dps spec)
2. Certain pug players running into a big ball of zerg at the beginning of a fight, instantly dying and giving the opposition the numbers advantage.
3. People refusing to kite back when they take damage, mostly melee players but rdps as well. They stay too long in the fight allowing 12 DoTs on them that even if cleansed my a m2 from a DoK, get reapplied again, resulting in a dead dummy.

Reduction in damage is not needed... what is needed is the Annihilator/Bastion Stair gear for the level 35 cap. The problem we have is that we are still in the same gear that we used at level 31 and 32 but didn't get an upgraded version. I think devs said they aren't going to add anni gear in with the new levels... or weapons, not sure which one it was.

[peterthepan3]

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

Would you like anything else with that, sir?

Have a guard, and some good heals, or good usage of detaunt/defensive stats - and you won't die so fast. Dying very fast is an individual problem that doesn't necessitate free goodies to the losing side.

[Idrinth]

Before I start, peter, my intention is not making pugging easier, but providing better figths for all participants, where it is still a beefit to have a group of your own.
I currently don't run with a group, since a few hours per week (spread over that week) is not really something to build on.

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

There are three main issues in pugs as far as I'm concerned.

1. Healer's who are not specced to heal (dps spec)
2. Certain pug players running into a big ball of zerg at the beginning of a fight, instantly dying and giving the opposition the numbers advantage.
3. People refusing to kite back when they take damage, mostly melee players but rdps as well. They stay too long in the fight allowing 12 DoTs on them that even if cleansed my a m2 from a DoK, get reapplied again, resulting in a dead dummy.

Reduction in damage is not needed... what is needed is the Annihilator/Bastion Stair gear for the level 35 cap. The problem we have is that we are still in the same gear that we used at level 31 and 32 but didn't get an upgraded version. I think devs said they aren't going to add anni gear in with the new levels... or weapons, not sure which one it was.

I would like to keep your 4th point out, that's a different issue all in all.

1) dps specced healer are obviously not able to outheal other healers easily, but they can still heal a bit. They would need a lower damage/sec to be able to really help - would be solved or at least get a small bandaid by the reduced incoming damage. This might need incentives, will think about those.
2) for some careers that is pretty much all they can do, but yes, that kind of thing can't be easily solved by modifiing parameters of the damage calculation
3) I'm one of those, simple reason being, that I tend to play classes that lack escape tools from melee combat. That is mostly a spec issue and l2p issue, but the anger about it might be less if they wouldn't die as often(as in lower damage per second) to help reduce the drawback of people not paying attention.

Just for the record, I planned for a very, very moderate amount of damage adjustments, really just a chance, not an instawin
i think the results are reasonable judging from the kills and points of those examples.

1% per 25 points difference (max ~20% at 499:0, usually 1-4%)
1% per kill difference

MIN((<own points> - <enemy points>)/2500+(<own kills> - <enemy kills>)/100+1,1)

Example 1:
Side A 300 points, 20 kills
Side B 10 points, 1 kill

Side A incoming damage: 100%
SIDE B icoming damage: 69.4%

Example 2:
Side A 100 points, 15 kills
Side B 400 points, 1 kill

Side A incoming damage: 100%
SIDE B icoming damage: 98%

Example 3:
Side A 50 points, 5 kills
Side B 50 points, 0 kill

Side A incoming damage: 100%
SIDE B icoming damage: 95%

Example 4:
Side A 499 points, 0 kills
Side B 0 points, 30 kill

Side A incoming damage: 89.96%
SIDE B icoming damage: 100%

Example 5:
Side A 150 points, 3 kills
Side B 150 points, 2 kill

Side A incoming damage: 100%
SIDE B icoming damage: 99%

[peterthepan3]

There is literally no reason to implement any of those changes when the fundamental issue is people's inability to group up. You, by your own admission, say you don't play in a group, nor do you dedicate much time to the game. That's cool. However War necessitates group play. If you get outperformed by another team, you learn from your mistakes and adapt, finding friends along the way who you can group with.

Sorry but it's just my opinion. I really feel like we're bringing an Oxford educated barrister to settle a dispute between two children and who gets to play with the green dinosaur. No need to tinker with scen mechanics unless there's a legit problem.

Why don't you use LFG to get a scen party? You'll notice how beneficial it is. I tried pugging scens with Aisha yday and literally rage quit after 2. Groups are everything.

[Idrinth]

I have played in groups and premades before, peter, I know what I'll get when pugging, but sometimes getting a group is really just not reasonable.
I have farmed PUGs before, I have been farmed as a PUG, both of that is little fun.

Increasing the PUGs chances a tiny bit as a motivation would be a chance to create a comeback, when they notice that together they can actually work better - they will not if there's a time to die of less than a second from their point of view, since that just feels like you are without a chance.

I'm not sure if you've even read the talk happening in PUGs when meeting a Premade(or guild group), that usually revolves around them being unbeatable - not because they are considered better, but because they are "better equipped" or otherwise better where player skill is not involved. Those people need to get the opposite proven, so they actually fight.

[Tklees]

There is literally no reason to implement any of those changes when the fundamental issue is people's inability to group up. You, by your own admission, say you don't play in a group, nor do you dedicate much time to the game. That's cool. However War necessitates group play. If you get outperformed by another team, you learn from your mistakes and adapt, finding friends along the way who you can group with.

Sorry but it's just my opinion. I really feel like we're bringing an Oxford educated barrister to settle a dispute between two children and who gets to play with the green dinosaur. No need to tinker with scen mechanics unless there's a legit problem.

Why don't you use LFG to get a scen party? You'll notice how beneficial it is. I tried pugging scens with Aisha yday and literally rage quit after 2. Groups are everything.

All I read here was that Sunny isn't pro enough to carry you. And that sir is straight balderdash! Sunny is pro enough to carry pugs even the really bad ones. I believe you only rage quit due to separation anxiety from Gorthmag.

[Jail]

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

What a great idea.

[Idrinth]

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

What a great idea.

I would love to read your criticism expanded, so we can find a better mechanic to improve the fight's quality for all

[Tklees]

From my personal experience the biggest issue PUGs(including me) have is the time to die(NOT time to kill), that is too low for their teammates to react to properly - without voice it is very easy to miss the information needed.

I'm wondering, if a reduction in damage taken might help here - maybe base it on points AND kills and give a bonus to the opposing side's renown. That would at least give pugs more of a fighting chance while premades (or better pugs) would have better fights and rewards.

Reduction in overall damage received will not fix the difference between the simple equation below:
4 players dps on 1 target> 4 players dps on 4 targets.