[PVP]Scenario balance suggestion

[Asherdoom]

cite to me explicitly where it says sc's are intentionally ment to be unbalanced just because something can or could be dosnt mean it should be

Well cite to me where they should balanced then and how, because the original game had non of that and no reason to have it here either, besides the buttmad puggies weekly threads.
Damn me for removing my big post from the signature about SCs.

Why? Because it's better for the community as a whole. Premades want better fights? Balanced pug groups should give them. Pugs want to not get farmed? Being in balanced groups helps. People complain about lack of heals/tanks? This fixes that issue. There isn't a single argument that can be made for keeping Scs imbalanced aside from "it wasn't like that on live!!". News flash chief, this isn't live. Stuff that was broken is being fixed, Issues addressed, the community being given a say. If you don't like that I'm sure there is a vanilla wow server out there for you somewhere.

that was my point exactly

[Scrilian]

Because it's better for the community as a whole.

Well hopefully you'll have some proof to back this up once the balance forums open, mr balance moderator

[Jaycub]

And what's a good argument why they should be balanced? It's simply not possible with amount of skill/class/debuff/composition discrepancy and other multiple factors.
Pandering to the balance entitled soloQ elite players and their constant whining about not getting heals or guard is the first step to screwing the game, next would be mirroring classes I'm sure of it.
Not every one is all for 6man 2-2-2 meta and most dont even care about that. Where, for example, my kotbs tank, 2 dot bw, manet heal engie, napalm engie and heal am, that I ran for the last two weeks fit?
If its fairness you want, I repeat myself, it is fair for me, doesn't matter solo or grouped, to meet any kind of setup the enemy realm has to put up in a sc and try our hardest to win against it. No real reason to make a safe space for ppl that feel entitled to have a game that balances things for them and quite frankly they would still find a way to blame something for their loss.
*added my prev post to the signature, might make a bit clearer to understand my point of view

The intention of the change is not to balance classes on the individual level, but to balance scenarios on the archetype level. There is nothing wrong with any of the classes you posted, they all fit within DPS/Healer/Tank, Keg engineer is still a DPS. While people will possibly make passive aggressive comments about you queing up with one that problem lies within game balance and has nothing to do with the scenario manager. The devs have made it pretty clear that they intend to balance the game... So expect your engineer to eventually become a viable DPS at some point.

People should be entitled to balanced matches even if they are solo queing. I have over 5k hours in dota from WC3 to HoN to Dota 2, and similar play time in CS from 1.6. The current MM systems in place are leagues ahead of what we had to deal with... which were essentially random ass lobbies filled with players of all skill levels where players that had over 1k hours where playing (shitstomping) against people with less than 20 hours often times.

While MM is far from perfect....

>smurfs
>bought accounts
>griefing
>Varying degrees of player/official forced meta games
>competitive atmosphere leading to "toxic" community
>imperfect ranking systems for anything that is not a fixed roster full team
etc...

But it is still a farcry from the retardation we had to deal with in the old days. And most of arguments against it come from people who just wanted to stomp on shitters, but now playing in a "casual/non MM mode" has a stigma attached to it if you are a half decent player... so now these people are forced to play against people of similar skill level and get a reality check in terms of how good they really are.


The one argument in your post that has some validity, is the comment about forced metagames. You are right not everyone wants to play 2-2-2, but the problem with stepping outside of that meta is it requires a very purpose built 6 man... my guild will often run 3dps 2 healer 1 tank setups. This means you can only have 1 MDPS (1 guard), the tank pretty much has to be a knight or possibly SM (iron breaker group buffs lmao). It also means there needs to be a higher level of communication going in terms of the ability for the tank to peel for our back lines etc... And finally the specific class for each role (like the tank role mentioned earlier) has to be specific... not every class can fit into a 3-2-1 group while virtually every class can fit into 2-2-2 with a few exceptions which are all tied to balance issues that have been addressed many times on these forums.

You can see where setting up a manager to try an include anything other than 2 tanks 2 healers 2 DPS can very quickly become a nightmare/impossible.

If you want to bypass that, form a premade.

[Tklees]

Because it's better for the community as a whole.

Well hopefully you'll have some proof to back this up once the balance forums open, mr balance moderator

My role as a moderator consists of enforcing the rules of a section of the forumsforums. Nor would this topic fall under a "balance" issue. So I fail to see your post as anything other than an attempt to flame and overall general disrespect towards a fellow member of the community.

[Scrilian]

Nice strawman on the individual class balance, when it wasn't even stated. Disagree on the player entitlement thingy and MM being better than current not broken but randomQ.
Will come back to your post and reply better once I get back to work tomorrow :3

So I fail to see your post as anything other than an attempt to flame and overall general disrespect towards a fellow member of the community.

Well I see exactly the same thing in your previous post, the whole "its not live brah", but who cares

[Tklees]

Nice strawman on the individual class balance, when it wasn't even stated. Disagree on the player entitlement thingy and MM being better than current not broken but randomQ.
Will come back to your post and reply better once I get back to work tomorrow :3

So I fail to see your post as anything other than an attempt to flame and overall general disrespect towards a fellow member of the community.

Well I see exactly the same thing in your previous post, the whole "its not live brah", but who cares

That isn't a flame its a reality check.

[Jaycub]

Nice strawman on the individual class balance, when it wasn't even stated. Disagree on the player entitlement thingy and MM being better than current not broken but randomQ.
Will come back to your post and reply better once I get back to work tomorrow :3

You literally say

>Where, for example, my kotbs tank, 2 dot bw, manet heal engie, napalm engie and heal am, that I ran for the last two weeks fit?

And I use class balance to address why certain underperforming specs in the 2-2-2 meta (keg engineer) should not be an obstacle for this change, as it is something that has nothing to do with SC's but game balance which is being addressed by the devs.



Also your original post is basically just slippery slope, don't give me that fallacy BS man.

>Pandering to the balance entitled soloQ elite players and their constant whining about not getting heals or guard is the first step to screwing the game, next would be mirroring classes I'm sure of it.

inb4 I was only pretending :^)

[peterthepan3]

Because it's better for the community as a whole.

Well hopefully you'll have some proof to back this up once the balance forums open, mr balance moderator

My role as a moderator consists of enforcing the rules of a section of the forumsforums. Nor would this topic fall under a "balance" issue. So I fail to see your post as anything other than an attempt to flame and overall general disrespect towards a fellow member of the community.

Tbh this seems to be a common thing with Russian posters, I wouldn't think much of it. There's no reason why this system shouldn't be implemented. The same people saying 'no' are the same who constantly whine for pug vs pug scenarios...I don't get the logic?

[Asherdoom]

Tbh this seems to be a common thing with Russian posters, I wouldn't think much of it. There's no reason why this system shouldn't be implemented. The same people saying 'no' are the same who constantly whine for pug vs pug scenarios...I don't get the logic?

because doing so they justify their noobness accusing other scenarios members and love to whine about it into the forums. simple

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

So 2-2-2 is considered balanced in general?
I would rather say it is favoring mdps since rpds have troubles killing a guarded mdps before it is in range and lowers their dmg through pressure. That is why 2-2-2 teams with rdps struggled on live and still do at the current lvl cap in RoR.
For rdps I would suggest 1-3-2, they dont need to be guarded 24/7 so one tank is enough.