[PTS] Feedback on stats/formula/renown changes

[Omegus]

Further feedback unrelated to Fenris/Zxul as I'm not getting in the middle of that...



This now gives 23.6% parry (20% + 120 init) and -5% chance to be crit. At the start of this year this ability had a 25% parry chance and gave 80 init before being changed to 20% parry chance and 120 init to help cut down on mass parries. It's now close to it's pre-nerf level again.

[Fenris78]

Spoiler:

And while at it, also how much dmg do you think a caster which put every point of renown into defensive stats will do. So far while playing the game since live I haven't met for example a single bw/sorc who didn't put renown into crit, so your explanation about how they should be playing the game correctly should be extremely enlightening.

Still being dishonest eh?

The caster does not need invest into a secondary dps stat - weapon skill - since it get all the penetration it will ever need from the fact the that resistance in this game is weak, it get a super strong resistance debuff. Disrupt is basically a none- existent stat on everyone not holding a shield / or channeling to protect allies.

As fenris already told you, Engineer need to invest into weapon skill for singletarget damage, your solo roaming Magus does not, you are free to invest into crit, more toughness whatever. Of course you know all this but being honest is not your intention, is it? Remaining OP likely is.

Interesting. So anyone being able to get 40% magic mitigation in a selection of ways- buffs, resist lini, Winds set- including after those "super strong resistance debuffs", is weak. While a caster in full sov with armor pot- 2 k total armor- after base 1 k armor debuff, and vs say a baseline 400 ws, having 16% or so mitigation, is strong. Just to be clear, what was your grade in base math back in school? Seems relevant for some reason.

"Disrupt is basically a none- existent"- interesting, lets take a healer, a modest 700 will. 21% disrupt from will + 18% disrupt from renown, total 39% disrupt before any disrupt on equipment. For some reason seems to be a bit more than non existent. Then we can also talk about all the tank disrupt tactics, which also stack with renown.

"on everyone not holding a shield / or channeling to protect allies."- enlighten me, which part of "tanks buff dodge/ disr on anyone behind him stacking up to 45% total buff" have you missed, or was especially hard to understand for you? But you know what, lets start actually balancing things. Obviously, that means htl now should also buff parry on everyone by up to 45%, we want casters and mdps to be balanced after all.

You obviously trying to make outliers as average values, taking the most extreme setups, wich are concerning a minority of what you are encountering during most fights.
I'm taking about average values on the majority of characters.
Of course you can tailor you build to resist a bit more to 25% of enemy classes, but really you think everyone is doing that ?
Cutting their damage, parry or physical resistances to resist a few percents more against magical damage, while 75% of incoming damage being physical ?

Now I'm not denying the cases you mention exist, being targeted by a WL as light armor caster is not fun, nor trying to hit a caster protected behind 3 HtL tanks.
But in reality those encounters are far from the vast majority of situations, one being 1v1 setting, the other probably more during keep funnels.

Now about healer you mention, disrupt chances on gear are about 3-5% at best, let's say now in your example the healer got 44% disrupt chance :
-10% after Intelligence strikethrough
-7-8% after Sovereign set strikethrough
-5 to -9% after Whitering Soul or WoP debuff (-300 willpower)
-6% after st from Legendary Talisman, with only Sentinel stuff
-3% if you use pie liniment
-1% if you use blue gunbad ring
-Probably forgot other possibilities

You got at worst a -22% to disrupt chances, with a BiS magus for example, without even using talismans, consumable or specific gear.
Not speaking about Archmage which got a tactic to cut off 10% more disrupt, every caster can get around 29-32%, AM can go up to 40+% strikethrough, reducing disrupt chances to mostly zero %.
And we are speaking of classes who can get an extra 21% and more from willpower, now imagine any non-healer character with maxed out disrupt chance around 25% on best case ; your potential outlier with 3x HtL bonus is getting 25% + 45% = 70% even with the best protection available, you will still cut this defense to less than 50%, even less than 40%. Again, coming from a 70% disrupt chances, with 3 tanks in funneling situation.

Now imagine we remove all strikethrough from offensive stats, exactly like it was before this silly rework ; now everyone averaging 20-24% disrupt on BiS and full renown, wich is not especially high ; you stil can remove every bit of this defense with proper investment into strikethrough, but you will maybe miss some hits on high willpower classes, is that this bad ?

Now if you think funneling with 3 shield tanks in front of everyone is giving too much disrupt bonus, lower a bit the stacking (limit to x2, maybe ?) so magic damage can still get adequate pressure.

I'm only advocating to give maxed out renown on disrupt/dodge relevant again, nothing less nothing more, but looks like arguing with you is pointless so it will be my last answer to you, no more time to waste trying to explain how much those 20 renown points are utterly useless in their current form.

And please tone down the ad hominem attacks, it's only making you disrespectful for no reason.

[Zxul]

You obviously trying to make outliers as average values, taking the most extreme setups, wich are concerning a minority of what you are encountering during most fights.
I'm taking about average values on the majority of characters.

Interesting, what most of order seems to cry about are shams/ rshs, and how that is what most of what order encounters. And both of those have exactly the armor values which I took. Or your actual complain is that you specifically hunting tanks while using physical dmg? Then, indeed, you might run into a bit more mitigation.

Of course you can tailor you build to resist a bit more to 25% of enemy classes, but really you think everyone is doing that ?
Cutting their damage, parry or physical resistances to resist a few percents more against magical damage, while 75% of incoming damage being physical ?

And here we run into the main question. If magic dmg is so overpowered, how then, per your own words, 75% of inc dmg is physical? And how only 25% of enemy classes are casters, despite being per you so overpowered?

Now I'm not denying the cases you mention exist, being targeted by a WL as light armor caster is not fun, nor trying to hit a caster protected behind 3 HtL tanks.
But in reality those encounters are far from the vast majority of situations, one being 1v1 setting, the other probably more during keep funnels.

So what situations are you complaining about, exactly? Because it does sounds like most of your experience is, for some reason, is targeting the tanks first.

Now about healer you mention, disrupt chances on gear are about 3-5% at best, let's say now in your example the healer got 44% disrupt chance :
-10% after Intelligence strikethrough
-7-8% after Sovereign set strikethrough
-5 to -9% after Whitering Soul or WoP debuff (-300 willpower)
-6% after st from Legendary Talisman, with only Sentinel stuff
-3% if you use pie liniment
-1% if you use blue gunbad ring
-Probably forgot other possibilities

You got at worst a -22% to disrupt chances, with a BiS magus for example, without even using talismans, consumable or specific gear.
Not speaking about Archmage which got a tactic to cut off 10% more disrupt, every caster can get around 29-32%, AM can go up to 40+% strikethrough, reducing disrupt chances to mostly zero %.
And we are speaking of classes who can get an extra 21% and more from willpower, now imagine any non-healer character with maxed out disrupt chance around 25% on best case ; your potential outlier with 3x HtL bonus is getting 25% + 45% = 70% even with the best protection available, you will still cut this defense to less than 50%, even less than 40%. Again, coming from a 70% disrupt chances, with 3 tanks in funneling situation.

Show me a single caster in the game which uses all or most of that. Because they also need to actually do dmg after hitting, just like mdps need to actually do dmg, instead of investing everything into parry striketrough.

Also, it is interesting that you see no problem with any class having 40-50% disrupt, realistically more, but are just fine with any rdps having 0% parry after str +2h even if they max renown parry. Bias much?

Now imagine we remove all strikethrough from offensive stats, exactly like it was before this silly rework ; now everyone averaging 20-24% disrupt on BiS and full renown, wich is not especially high ; you stil can remove every bit of this defense with proper investment into strikethrough, but you will maybe miss some hits on high willpower classes, is that this bad ?

As long as we also go back into situation where both ws and init don't give mdps any parry, just as it was back then, fine by me. Also, nice delusion about strikethrough on caster classes except ones with specific anti disrupt tactic.

Now if you think funneling with 3 shield tanks in front of everyone is giving too much disrupt bonus, lower a bit the stacking (limit to x2, maybe ?) so magic damage can still get adequate pressure.

How about instead making it equal- make htl also give everyone as much parry as it gives dodge/disr?

I'm only advocating to give maxed out renown on disrupt/dodge relevant again, nothing less nothing more, but looks like arguing with you is pointless so it will be my last answer to you, no more time to waste trying to explain how much those 20 renown points are utterly useless in their current form.

It is interesting how, like I said, you are just fine with 20 renown points into parry being utterly useless on rdps, and only see a problem with dodge/disr on mdps.

And please tone down the ad hominem attacks, it's only making you disrespectful for no reason.

Make a post which isn't "magic is OP cause I said so, nerf!", and you will get a proper response.